On today's episode of WNYC's new popup advice show, Brittany Luse, host of NPR's 'It's Been a Minute,' leads a conversation about making and keeping friends, navigating tensions within friendship, and showing up for the people you care about, with Rachel Wilkerson Miller, lifestyle journalist and author of the books The Art of Showing Up: How to Be There for Yourself and Your People, and The Nice Life: How to Elevate the Everyday and Find Joy in What You Have. Listeners call in with their questions, experiences and tips for navigating their relationships with their friends.
Note: You are listening to the podcast version of a live radio show. The call-in number only works between 1 and 2 PM Eastern, while the show is live.
If you'd like to submit advice questions to be featured on the show, or topic suggestions for future shows, please use the form on our showpage at wnyc.org/advice
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Brittany Luse: Welcome to Please Advise, a pop-up advice show from WNYC. I'm Brittany Luse, host of NPR's It's Been a Minute. Thank you so much for joining us again today. Little housekeeping before we get into today's show. Next week, this show will be hosted by Manoush Zomorodi, a journalist covering the intersection of technology and what it means to be human. She'll be talking about AI and the impact of social media on kids. If you have any questions about that, you can submit them ahead of time at wnyc.org/advice.
All this week on Please Advise, we've been talking about different kinds of relationships. Today, we're taking your questions on friendship. Whether you're growing apart or you're closer than ever, even if you're trying to make friends at work or in a new neighborhood, we want to hear your questions and advice on being a friend. Our lines are open for you if you need some friendly advice at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692.
Sometimes things like money or busy schedules can get in the way of showing up for our friends, or maybe you're trying to figure out how to fix or how to end a friendship that's starting to sour. Maybe a friend hurt you, and you haven't decided if you want to talk to them about it. We are here today to try and help talk you through your friendship issues, whatever they look like. Give us a call at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692.
Now, I'm not going to be shouldering this burden of giving you all advice today alone. No, I called in a fantastic expert. Joining us today is Rachel Wilkerson Miller. She is a journalist covering wellness and friendships and the author of The Art of Showing Up: How to Be There for Yourself and Your People. She's also got a new book coming out in December called The Nice Life: How to Elevate the Everyday and Find Joy in What You Have, and today, I think that includes friendships. Rachel, thank you so much for joining us. It's good to see you.
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: Good to see you too. Thank you so much for having me.
Brittany Luse: Oh my gosh, when I realized we were going to talk about friendships, I was like, "Okay, this is the person that we need to talk to," because I learned so much from Rachel about how to show up, which I'm not going to lie, there have been periods of my life where that wasn't my finest quality. I wasn't in my finest era. She has so much knowledge on this topic. I'm so excited to hear from you today. Let's start with a caller who actually first submitted a question to our web form and actually is on the line today. Brian in Flatbush, what's up?
Brian: Hello.
Brittany Luse: Hi.
Brian: I never ask for advice, but I'm in a situation where I loaned a friend some money. It wasn't even a loan. This is the sticky part. The long and the short of it is I got my friend a freelance gig, and they needed money, so I floated them the money in advance of that dreaded net 30. They were supposed to--
Brittany Luse: Oh, right, where you have to wait 30 days before you can get paid on a lot of freelance gigs, right?
Brian: Exactly. It's of the devil. I was like, "Sure, I can give you the money, and then when you get the money, you give it back to me." That's the understanding. I call them up and they're like, "Oh yes, I got the payment." First of all, I shouldn't be having to call you to say, "Oh, did that thing come through?" They spent the money on other expenses without consulting or sharing that with me at all. I'm sitting here not reimbursed, and they didn't even have the decency to say, "You know what? I'm in a pickle, so can I just float that money a little further?" Just nothing without me reaching out, and I feel a way about it.
Brittany Luse: First of all, Brian, this is quite a pickle. I got to agree with you, but I have a question, one follow-up. Is this usual behavior for your friend? Are they going through a rough patch, or is this like another episode in the drama of being in a relationship with this person?
Brian: No. Over the last year, they've been transitioning with work and things, and they're in a creative field. I've given on 2 separate instances about $800 over the last year that has been like, "Listen, you need this to plug a gap," and I had no expectation of a payback. If I'm going to give you the money, I'm going to share it freely and not make a thing about it, but this was different. This was not the understanding of, "Oh, I need help," this. I'm like, "I got you the work so you can have the money. I gave you the money, and you're supposed to give it back." That's what feels icky about it to me.
Brittany Luse: Okay. Thank you for giving us all this background. Rachel, what do you think about all this?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I am shocked at your friend's audacity to not reach out, to not be proactive, but also not surprised. I think people feel a lot of shame around money. I have no doubt that your friend knows that they owe you the money, and they're just hoping that you won't bring it up again, or they're telling themselves a story that, oh, last time it wasn't a loan. There was no expectation of being paid back. Maybe this is something similar.
I don't blame you for being really frustrated and disappointed. I think it's worth a second conversation that is really explicit where you say, "Hey, I thought we had this understanding. When can I expect that you'll pay me back?" It's not a matter of if, it's just, when are you getting me the money that you owe me? Then you see what they say. That'll tell you a lot about how your friend thinks about money, how they feel about the situation. I think just a super, super direct conversation is a good place to start.
Brittany Luse: I think that's really great advice, Rachel. I think being direct, oh my gosh, sometimes it feels [laughs] like walking on hot coals. Those are the moments, to your point, Rachel, where you can actually just see for yourself how someone's going to respond. Give them the opportunity to show you how they are really going to show up in a certain conversation or situation, and then you can decide what you're going to do from there. As tempting as it might feel, I think sometimes when we feel disrespected, to just immediately write someone off and cut them off, the trickier part, but often more necessary part, is to actually just have a direct conversation.
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: Yes, and I think give your friend some credit. They may disappoint you, and I think that you should be prepared for them to not respond or to make excuses. You should make peace with the idea that you might never see this money again, but I think give your friend credit. You've been friends for a long time. It's worth at least trying to have that conversation, giving the benefit of the doubt that they'll respond in kind and correctly if you come to them sincerely, openly, but directly and firmly. If they don't, then you have your answer, but I do think it's worth a shot.
Brittany Luse: I love that. Thank you so much, Rachel, and thank you so much, Brian. I really appreciated this call. I think that there's a lot of people that are in a similar situation where they want to be helpful, but also maybe they feel taken advantage of. Also, maybe they're the other side of the equation where they're feeling ashamed about what they don't have. There's a lot going on, and I think that you're absolutely right: a direct conversation is best.
Rachel, I want to ask you a couple questions for a second. You have written extensively about how to show up for the people in your life, show up for ourselves as well, and also to show people that you care about them through these sort of simple, quiet acts of often consistency and noticing. What made you so passionate about this topic?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I think that I wrote that book in 2020, or it was published in 2020, so I had written it the year before. In the mid-2010s, I think friendships just changed really dramatically, it feels like overnight. Social media just really shifted how we can stay in touch with people, but also how we can be distracted from these friendships. It became a stand-in for in-person connection, for phone calls. Suddenly, the landscape just shifted under our feet. That really drew me in.
People were looking for direction, rules. How do I navigate this? How do I talk about this? Then through the early 2020s, we had even more shifts. People were working from home or remote, and just there was so much social change. Politics started to change friendships really dramatically. I think even though we've settled into social media, that doesn't mean we have a good relationship with it, but I think we're a little bit more used to it.
Now we have all these new forces and factors that we're dealing with, and it just continues to be a source of anguish for people and something that I think only more recently became a topic of conversation. It's always been about romantic relationships or maybe family relationships, but I'm excited that more and more people are saying, "Hey, no, we need to talk about these other relationships as well. They're important, and they matter, and we've got no idea how to handle them."
Brittany Luse: Oh, I think you're so right. I always like to think about all of your relationships in your life almost [laughs] like woven straw, like a basket, or like a piece of cloth. They're a network of relationships of different strengths, lengths, intensities that uphold your being, and that there's no one relationship, like a romantic relationship or partnership, that can be a replacement for all of those different types of love. I think the hope is that these are always a two-way street. That leads me to my next question. What exactly does it mean to show up for the people in your life? Does it look the same for everybody?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I don't think it looks the same for everybody. I know you mentioned showing up for yourself, and I really do think that that is crucial because the way you show up for yourself will both give you the energy and the presence of mind to be able to show up for other people. If you're feeling stressed and impatient and put upon by other people, it might be a sign that you're not getting something. That might be something you need from them, but it could be something that you need to give yourself, a day off or sleeping in or whatever the case may be. I do think you have to really make sure you're checking in with yourself first.
In terms of what it looks like to show up for other people, you mentioned noticing, Brittany, which I think is so important. It's just paying attention. It's being present with people when you're with them, but when you're not, also figuring out: what does it mean to keep an eye on and to look and to check in? I think it's very easy, even when we're with people, to have our minds be elsewhere. We're thinking about our to-do list. We're thinking about, "Oh, we're having such a nice dinner. Should I take a picture, and should I post it?" Just getting lost.
When you're lost like that, you're not hearing what they're telling you. You're not taking them in and seeing, how are they? Do they seem different than the last time you saw them? Do they seem more stressed out or more relaxed? Is there a twinkle in their eye that you didn't notice before and now you're seeing it? Then what does that tell you? You can say, "You seem like you're doing great. I'm so happy for you."
Just having that conversation really starts with the: what am I seeing in front of me? What am I hearing when we talk? What am I experiencing from them? I think that's a really great place to start in terms of making people feel good, but it also starts to give you clues as to what they need and how you can respond to it.
Brittany Luse: It's so interesting, too, because what you're talking about as well is like checking in with all of our senses, really, when we are interacting with a friend in person or on the phone or in whatever way, actually, like [laughs] five things you can see, four things you can hear. All of our senses, in a way, are being engaged by being in the presence of this person. That's very similar to the way that we think about pleasure. It's very interesting to think about showing up can also be a form of making ourselves and other people feel good, and I love that idea. I love that. Let's take a caller. We have Tulis from Harlem.
Tulis: Hi there. Thank you for taking my call.
Brittany Luse: Of course. How you doing, Tulis?
Tulis: I'm doing pretty darn good. How about you?
Brittany Luse: I'm doing good. I can't wait to hear your question.
Tulis: Okay. I have three definite friends, and they're hard to get a hold of. I'm the one that's always calling and saying, "You want to get together," blah, blah, blah. Sometimes I hear back, sometimes I don't. Whenever I see them or actually speak to them, because I have called sometimes to go, "Are we okay?" It's, "Oh my God, yes. I'm so busy, busy. I promise I'll get back to you," and then it's crickets. The way I'm feeling is, let me go spend time with people who get back to me. They're important people, but dang, there's only so much footwork I can do.
Brittany Luse: You seem like you were going to call in with a question, but honestly, Tulis, I think you answered your own question. I think that you raise a really good point. I don't know all the details about your relationships with your friends, but regardless, it sounds like there is a rhythm of engagement that you're looking for that maybe these other friends aren't looking for. It would make sense to hang out with people that are going to match your frequency. Also, we all want to be around people who like us back. I think if you feel liked back, then yes, those are definitely going to be the people you want to hang out with. It sounds like a good plan to me, but what do you think, Rachel?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I couldn't agree more. I think you're doing exactly the right thing. The fact that you've directly said, "Are we okay?" And they're saying yes, but you're not seeing anything change, tells you what you need to know. I don't think that this means that they don't like you or care for you. It just seems like your levels of engagement and prioritization are different. I think it's completely reasonable to pull back, read the room, and say, "I'm just not getting the sense that they want to be in such frequent contact."
You never know. You might hear from them, but what might be happening is you're starting to realize that they just don't want to be as close as you do or just can't be as close as you'd like to be, and I think that's a hard thing to admit and accept. The fact that you're already coming to that, I think, is a really good way to help you move through it and move on. I think choosing to invest in the people who are investing back in the way you want to is a great move, and I think you're going to be happier in the long run for it.
Brittany Luse: I totally agree. Also, I just want to shout it again: if you have a question or advice that you'd like to share, our number here in the studio is 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. We're going to take one more call from Corinne from Brooklyn. Corinne, are you there? What's up? Give us your question.
Corinne: Hi. I have a question. I have a friend of 40 years. We've been estranged for, I don't know, maybe 14 years now. My family and I have reached out on different platforms, and she just sent a photo on one of the platforms, like a present-day photo. Other friends and close relatives, we've lost family members, and we thought she would show up, but she hasn't. We literally want to go and find her where she is. I don't know. I guess I'm just wondering if it's a good idea to do that. Maybe if she's listening today, that, hey, #Taja, we miss you. We want you to come home. I hope she's listening.
Brittany Luse: If I may ask a follow-up question, is she someone where you're worried about, where she might be, or how she might be doing?
Corinne: We were worried, but then she sent a photo. One friend did tell us that she's in another country and she's happy there, but we still want to wrap our arms around her. It's a large group of us, and I don't know, should we pursue this relationship even though she has not responded to most of us?
Brittany Luse: I have a couple of thoughts, but I want to hear yours first, Rachel.
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I think you got to let it go, as painful as it is, and hope that something will change in the future. You can leave the door open if she comes back, or you don't have to if that's too painful, if you want to just tell yourself, "That's it. I'm blocking her. I want to be done." I think she's sending a clear enough message that she doesn't want to be reached. She's given you the "I'm okay," and nothing else. I think it's probably for the best to follow that and trust that she knows what's best for herself.
Even if she does need help, sometimes you just can't help people. When they're adults, sometimes there's just not much more you can do. She's telling you she's okay, and I hope that that's true, but I think it's probably best to give this one some space.
Brittany Luse: I am inclined to agree, Rachel. My thoughts exactly. We actually have to take a quick break, though. I just want to say, Corinne, again, thank you so much for calling in. We got to take a short break. My guest is Rachel Wilkerson Miller, journalist and author of The Art of Showing Up: How to Be There for Yourself and for Your People. We'll be back in a minute with more tips for maintaining friendships and more of your calls at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. This is Please Advise, a new live call-in advice show on WNYC. I'm Brittany Luse. Don't go anywhere.
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Brittany Luse: You are listening to Please Advise, a new live call-in show on WNYC. I'm Brittany Luse. My guest is Rachel Wilkerson Miller, journalist and author of The Art of Showing Up: How to Be There for Yourself and Your People, and we are taking your calls. If you need some advice about navigating friendship, making friends, keeping friends, maybe you have to make a tough decision to distance yourself from a friend, we are here to help at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. We are back, and we have a call already. Ray from Los Angeles, thank you so much for getting up early and talking to us today. Ray, what's your question?
Ray: Hi. First, thanks for taking my call. I'm an HBCU grad, and at my HBCU, it is customary that we celebrate our freshman year of incoming because everyone graduates at different times. I had a best friend who was so much a part of my undergrad experience, was really special to me. We had a lot of challenges in undergrad with our friendship because she pledged one of the most popular sororities on campus, and if you've been to an HBCU, especially in the early 2000s--
Brittany Luse: That's exactly where I was in the early 2000s, so I'm with you.
[laughter].
Ray: Yes. It's a process. After college, life happened. I was pursuing my career, she was doing her thing, and we ended up in different places, but I was still maintaining contact. I love that the conversation today had someone speaking about showing up, because I think that's my love language. How I show love, at least, is by acts of service and showing up for my friends.
Although we got distant after college, she called me and was like, "I'm getting married, would love for you to be there." For additional context, she actually did a courthouse wedding and got married that way, and never had a ceremony. A couple years later, they wanted to celebrate their anniversary with an actual ceremony and more of a formal thing, and asked me to be a part of it.
Now, at this point, we hadn't been in touch for years. I did have feelings about it. I went through my loneliness thing in therapy and all of that, but I was like, "This is someone calling and reaching out. I want to show up." I agreed to do the wedding. Did the wedding, participated. While I was there, there was weird energy that I couldn't place, but I also didn't want to engage with because I was like, "I don't want to be the drama at the wedding."
Brittany Luse: It's not the day. It's not the day. I get it. I get it.
Ray: Right. Got through the day, got through the weekend, had to travel for the wedding. Then after the wedding, this is 2023, three years ago, never heard from her again. She texts pictures from the photographer, and that's the last time we corresponded.
Brittany Luse: Whoa.
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: Wow.
Ray: Now, with homecoming coming up, everyone's asking, "Are you going to homecoming? Are you coming back to the Hill?" All of this. I'm just like, "I really would like to be a part of the celebration, but it's like, what am I coming back to if I don't have friends?" I'm trying to figure out how to navigate this. Do I go and just participate and feel the loneliness, or do I try to reconcile with her and see if we can rekindle?
Brittany Luse: Wait, I just want to ask a follow-up question. You mentioned one person. Is she the one person you'd be going there to see? Is that how you were thinking about it before?
Ray: She wouldn't be the one person, but she is the core person. There was a group of us, and I know the other friends are not going to be going to homecoming.
Brittany Luse: I see.
Ray: I just don't know. Should I try to reach out and see, "Hey, are you going to homecoming?" Start that conversation, or do I just leave it alone?
Brittany Luse: I want to hear your thoughts, Rachel, but I'll just say very briefly, I feel like if you want to go and you think you might-- I'll be honest with you. Listen, I graduated from Howard. I have not been to homecoming, honestly, since I was attending [laughs] undergrad. I haven't been back because I was living here in New York, and a lot of people that I was in school with were already here. My sister was here, everybody, so I was like, " I'm living homecoming every day."
Putting myself in the mindset of somebody who would go back for homecoming, I think that if you think that there might be other people that you want to see or if you want to reflect on your time at college, I think that's always a great reason to go back. You might see people that you forgot that you really liked. You might have the opportunity to rekindle other friendships or deepen casual relationships through experiences that you have at a homecoming weekend.
I think if it's not a question of budget, because I know homecoming can get expensive, if it's not a question of budget and you think you might have a good time otherwise, then I'm like, "Yes, go." Don't let this friendship that's soured keep you from experiencing something that you might enjoy. If hanging out with her was the only reason to go, then I would say probably don't reach out to her and ask if she's going, because who knows then. If the energy was weird at her wedding, I'm like, "Could the energy be weird at homecoming?" I don't know. What do you think, Rachel?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I agree with everything you said. I think if you want to go, and you can afford to go, and you have the time off, and it won't be a big hassle, go for yourself. I think this friendship, it sounds like you've already mourned it, and I think it's time to just call it. If you see her there, you see her there, but I wouldn't reach out first if you decide to go. I would treat it as though she's not going to be there. If she is, you might want to keep some distance, polite, but not trying to get too close, because I think from what I'm hearing, you sound like you're quite hurt by this, and I understand why. To just go dark after the wedding, after disappearing before that, is really tough.
If you think that there's potential for new or deeper connections at homecoming, if it would bring you joy and you can imagine a world in which you walk away feeling more uplifted and better and with some new, fresher connections to nurture, I think that's a great opportunity. If the whole time you're just going to be reminded of this bad friendship or you just are going to feel like, "Why am I here? I don't really know these people," then I think you can give yourself permission to just opt out.
Brittany Luse: I like that. I think that's great advice, Rachel. I hope whatever you do the weekend of homecoming, you have a fabulous time because I just feel like it's a good time of year for celebration. If you're not going to celebrate your alma mater, you should celebrate yourself. All right. We are going to take another call from Esther in Long Island City. Esther, what's going on?
Esther: Thank you [laughs] for having this show. Listening to every person who's called in and the advice you have given, you've answered everything that I need.
[laughter]
Brittany Luse: Is that right?
Esther: It's like, "Yes." I've jotted down exactly the different things that I can say, and yes. [laughs]
Brittany Luse: For the sake of maybe public service, would you mind sharing what your question was going to be?
Esther: Not at all.
Brittany Luse: Oh, thank you.
Esther: I recently had major surgery-
Brittany Luse: Oh.
Esther: -so I've not been at the senior center for almost three months, and one of the women has, I don't want to say Dracula, but won't let go. I've talked to her many times. Go ahead.
Brittany Luse: What do you mean she won't let go? Oh, you mean she's like an energy vampire?
Esther: Yes.
Brittany Luse: Okay. Copy.
Esther: It's negative. I've often said to her, "Hey, you're looking at it glass empty. Let's look at it glass half full," and just trying to be light about it. The table that we used to sit at, I'm not there. No one else is sitting there because of her. Somehow I'm going to have to state again things that I've said in the past and say, "I cannot sit with you. I'm sorry."
Brittany Luse: Listen, Esther, I got to say brava to you because you are drawing a boundary, actually, right there is what you're doing. Also, I just want to say, you said at the beginning of the call that you recently had surgery. I hope that you have a swift and smooth recovery. Especially if you're in a state like that where you're trying to mind your health and feel good, feel better, then yes, I could see how having negative energy around wouldn't be so great.
Also, I don't want to guess anyone's age, but you mentioned a senior center, which makes me feel like the people in this story are 55 plus. There is a dating saying that I have heard [laughs] that I don't necessarily subscribe to, but I think it's very interesting in this case. There used to be a saying that I heard, "If it ain't fixed by 40, it ain't getting fixed."
My thought is that maybe, Esther, the woman at your senior center, and I think this is why you're making the right decision-- I think, I'm not saying that she necessarily needs to be fixed. I don't know anything about her other than what you're telling me, but I do think that it sounds like she might be a little set in her ways.
If she's gotten to a point in life where she feels like that's how she wants to live it and it's served her well, then you sometimes just got to let sleeping dogs lie. To your point, saying that you're not going to sit with her, that to me sounds pretty reasonable. If you guys are not an energy match, if you don't enjoy having the same type of conversation, then it can be a hello and goodbye and see you later. What do you think, Rachel?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I agree. It's funny because I caught the senior center thing, and I had a similar thought of, if this woman is a senior, this isn't the first time that she's heard this. I'm sure that other people in her life have said this before. Whether she's been able to make that change or not with other people, or make it consistently or even try, who's to say? I think I would be surprised if you're the first person to tell her this.
I just have to applaud you for being so direct. That is one of the hardest things to do when it feels so personal. It's really, as humans, we do not like to exclude people. It is very hard to say what boils down to, "I don't really like your vibe." That is so challenging, so I really admire you for doing that. The fact that it doesn't help, I think, I don't know what else you could possibly say to change this. I think you're right to just say, "Hey, I'm not feeling this. I'm so sorry, but I just don't think we are a good friendship match," or however you said it. You don't need us. I think you've got this figured out.
Brittany Luse: Good job, Esther. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for calling in. Next, I believe we have Maggie from Brooklyn. Maggie from Brooklyn, holler at us. What's going on? What's your question?
Maggie: Hi. I have a question about kind of a resolving a friendship as well. I had a very great friend for many years and very great friendship. Then something changed, and I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but I think, like what you were saying about social media, it was difficult because she would be doing things that we had talked about doing together but with other people, and then I'd see it, and it was this whole thing, and I started to pull away. Then she eventually moved out of the city and has since been living in a different state.
We have a lot of friends in common, so our paths do still cross, especially at weddings and things like that. Lately, I've been trying to decide how to resolve my own grief about losing that friendship and thinking about whether I should reach out to her. I don't want to apologize for my behavior because I know why I behaved the way I did. It was out of self-preservation, but I know that she has no idea why it all happened. I can't decide if that would be helpful for either of us or if it would just open up wounds.
Brittany Luse: What do you think, Rachel?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I think my question is, do you suspect that she wants to know what happened? Is she signaling that she is hurt or curious or wants things to change? I think if she seems to be reaching out, or even if it's small things, like if she's responding to your Instagram stories more and implying that she's interested in rekindling or just having a little bit of closeness, that might be a signal that you could have that conversation.
If she's not, if it seems like she's moved on, I think that processing your grief privately and mourning the end of this friendship without involving her might be the move, because I don't know that talking to her will actually give you the closure that you want. It might, but so often, I think we see this with romantic breakups as well. The imagined conversation is so much better than the real one, which can just be a letdown and leave you feeling worse. I don't think there's a wrong answer here, but I think sometimes it's a helpful exercise to accept what it looks like to grieve and move on without something that feels like closure.
Brittany Luse: I think you said it all, Rachel. Yes, sometimes it can be best to leave things unsaid, especially if there's not any action coming from her end of things, and I think Rachel's absolutely right that sometimes you just have to lick your wounds and move on. Thank you so much for calling in. Next, we've got Jim from Brick Township. Jim, how you doing?
Jim: Okay. I'm older now and [chuckles] maybe wiser. I was telling the screener I'm an only child, had some privilege just by virtue of the economics of that. I had an uncle who was like a second father. I had a car usually at my disposal, and I helped a lot of friends whom I considered like siblings. It was alluded to earlier how people are sometimes shamed by being in need, and when you look for a favor to be returned sometime later, they're busy, if they're even in touch.
There's this phenomenon of what was where people were-- I read in a book this phrase that they look at you like an old umbrella on a sunny day. You're being in the past and having been there, and there's somewhat of a bias that they feel, "Well, you're privileged and sorted out for yourself."
Brittany Luse: Are you dealing with maybe feeling forgotten by some friends that maybe you extended yourself for, that you thought were close?
Jim: No, I've resigned myself to that, that that's their way of moving on, but it's a realization. There was an older Greek, I think he was a Greek, who went to Rome. I won't attempt his last name here, but it was, "Do not hold your friends cheap, nor let your friends hold you cheaply." It goes with favors and money. The only other thing, I don't know whatever the amounts were there, there was something in the Bronx Tale where the young man consulting the [chuckles] about somebody who won't pay him back $20-
Brittany Luse: [laughs] Yes.
Jim: -until you rough him up, and it's like, no, you're getting off cheap. You realize that that person isn't your friend.
Brittany Luse: I see. I see. I see. Oh, Rachel, what do you think about Jim's plight? It seems like he had some friends that he considered more like family, and it turns out that maybe they're not reciprocating the feelings.
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I think it is so valid to just be hurt and to say, "This really hurts my feelings. I feel sad about it. I feel disappointed." I'm not saying you say this to them. I'm saying just saying that out loud to us, saying it to yourself, just acknowledging this feels bad. I think this metaphor of an umbrella, I can hear how sad and how discarded you feel when you say that, and I empathize, and I'm sorry. That is just a really terrible feeling. I don't know that it is a fixable one. Sometimes all we can do is just let that wash over us and accept it for what it is and not really fight it.
If there are lessons to learn in the future, then great, but sometimes there aren't just lessons. Sometimes there's just feeling bad until you don't feel bad anymore. I just want to acknowledge that that feels terrible. I don't know that you did anything wrong or even that they even realize that they hurt you. They might have not done anything wrong in that sense either, but I think it's so, so reasonable to just be really hurt and let down by it.
Brittany Luse: Jim, thank you so much for calling in. I think you're so right, Rachel. Sometimes you just got to feel your feelings even when they don't feel good. Next up, we got a call from Ken from New Jersey. Ken, what's your question?
Ken: Hi. As everyone else, you've answered a lot of my problems. I live in an area where I have very few local friends. My husband and I were friends with a couple nearby, and all of a sudden, the husband of the couple accused me of something. I thought he was kidding, and he just would not explain or say anything. That went on for a little while, and I have to admit I behaved badly because I was very hurt, and I wasn't getting a response.
As time went on, after a couple of weeks, they stopped communicating at all, so they have completely cut us off, the husband and the wife. We saw these people all the time and really liked them. I can't get over it. [chuckles] It's been almost a year.
Brittany Luse: I could see why that sudden change in a close friendship, especially when you're living in such a remote area, as you describe living in a more rural area. I could see how that would be really devastating. Rachel, what's your take?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I think that there's two layers to why this probably feels so bad. One is that if you're accused of something that you didn't do, that is just a bad feeling on its own. I think that it's very human to want to fight that and to prove your innocence and to fight back. That alone feels terrible. Then to have a friendship end because of it, it adds another layer of, "I was wrongly accused. Now I've lost this friendship, and I can't plead my case." I think one of the worst human feelings is to be misunderstood, and it sounds like you feel misunderstood.
My question back to you is: do you think that reaching out now, a year later, to say, "I'm sorry for how I handled this at the time. If you're open to talking, I would love to talk." I don't know if that's possible because the core break here is over something that, without resolving that, both of you might not be able to move forward, and I think if that's the case, it's probably not worth trying again. If you think that the accusation was small enough that it could be worked around, even if you don't totally see eye to eye on it, or if revisiting it with more space would allow either of you to look at it differently, then it could be worth reaching out, but it just depends on that: what caused the rupture in the first place.
If you decide, I don't think we can get past that, I think doing the work on your own of, sometimes people will misunderstand us, and it is so infuriating, it is such a terrible feeling, but it is not necessarily one we can fix or control, and just going through the process of accepting I didn't do this. I know who I am. I know what is true for me. To continue to fight that, even if it's in your own head, even if you're just having fights with this person in the shower, will make you come unglued. If you know what is true, just hold to that. What they think, in a sense, doesn't matter. You know what is true and start there. Just start with, "I know what is true, and I can't change their minds, but I know my reality."
Brittany Luse: Oh my gosh, Rachel, thank you so much for giving us that food for thought right before we go to a break. Before we go to the break, I just want to say if you got an issue about a relationship with a friend, give us a call. The number is 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692. We have to take a short break. My guest is Rachel Wilkerson Miller, journalist and author of The Art of Showing Up: How to Be There for Yourself and Your People. We'll be back in a minute with more tips for maintaining friendships and more of your calls at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. This is Please Advise, a new live call-in advice show on WNYC. I'm Brittany Luse. Don't go anywhere.
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Brittany Luse: You are listening to Please Advise, a new live call-in show on WNYC. I'm Brittany Luse. My guest is Rachel Wilkerson Miller, journalist and author of The Art of Showing Up: How to Be There for Yourself and Your People, and we are taking your calls. If you need some advice about navigating friendship, making friends, keeping friends, maybe you have to make a tough decision to distance yourself from a friend, we are here to help. Call us at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. We got Cheryl on the line from Long Island. Cheryl, talk to us. What's your question?
Cheryl: Hi. How are you?
Brittany Luse: Good. How are you?
Cheryl: I'm doing okay. Thank you. I have a little bit of advice. I'm in my 70s. Two years ago, I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
Brittany Luse: Oh, I'm sorry.
Cheryl: I'm now a one-year breast cancer survivor.
Brittany Luse: Congratulations.
Cheryl: All good, but it was kind of an eye-opener for me because I saw the people that I thought would show up, who didn't, and people who I would never have thought showing up, showed up. It made me start to think back about friendship. I realized that all my life I was a people pleaser and I'd go out of my way for my friends. Then it finally dawned on me: not everyone is going to be a friend like me. You have to look at your friends and say, "Well, this is who they are. This is what they can give. Do I want to keep that relationship, or do I just want to put it on the side or drop it?" You can't project your expectations onto them.
Brittany Luse: Cheryl, that is sage advice. I'm like, "Girl, you need to be in the studio with me." Thank you so much. That's brilliant. Not placing the expectations that we place on ourselves on others, I feel like [chuckles] that's a foundational understanding to the health and happiness of so many relationships, but it's hard, it's hard to process that and to achieve that. Rachel, how are you reacting to Cheryl's advice?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: I'm having a similar reaction of, wow, that is a really profound way of viewing the world and expressing this. I think what you're describing is what some people might refer to as grace or mercy. It's giving people something that they don't necessarily deserve, but you give it anyway, and I think that is really beautiful and really difficult. Everyone has to decide for themselves when they have the capacity to give it and when they don't, but I think the fact that you've been able to do that with so many people is just really moving. I'm going to be thinking about this one for a while.
Brittany Luse: 100% agree. Thank you so much, Cheryl. I'm like, "I got to write that one down. I'm taking that to the bank." All right. Next up, we have a call from Meredith. Meredith, please tell us, in Jersey City, what's your friendship question?
Meredith: Hi. First of all, I just want to say that I love this segment. I love the idea of talking about friendship. I don't think we do it enough. I really appreciate the last caller's perspective. That's advice that my mom used to give me a lot about the fact that not every relationship is 50/50. You might be giving 70 and the other person might be giving 30, and perhaps that relationship still has value, even though you're giving more than they are.
I guess my comment, it's not really a question or advice, but my comment is I've often found that friendship in adulthood is so challenging and tricky. I've been in a long-term relationship with my husband since my early 20s. I'm now 40. That's been such a consistent relationship, but my friendships have really been all over the map, and it's been so painful to lose some of those friendships along the way. Some of them are because of me, and honestly, bad behavior that I've engaged in, and I regret that, but I think that there's just not enough out there about how to be a good friend in adulthood.
I think it requires a lot of sacrifice that, at certain points in our lives, when we're building our careers or building families, we just don't have the capacity to give. I do think there's, one, a sense of we need to be understanding that everything has a season and it's transient. Also, I think we need to really push ourselves to give more sometimes, even when we feel exhausted. It's hard to get on the train or get in the car and drive an hour.
My comment on why I was compelled to call is just I find friendship so beautiful. When they're going well, it's like the best thing in the world, and when they end, it can be so, so painful. I now want to read the book, of course, but I guess I'm curious what you both think about how to really sustain friendships and how do we really judge a good friendship, and what can we expect from other people, especially our friends?
Brittany Luse: Meredith, you are asking, I feel like, some of the toughest but also most rewarding questions I think that we can ask about friendship, so I appreciate you calling in. Rachel, I'm going to defer to you because, listen, I'm like, I think if I wrote a book called Showing Up, there are some people in my life who would be like, "Girl."
[laughter]
Brittany Luse: They would pick the book reading. What do you think, Rachel? How do we sustain our friendships?
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: There were so many little things that you just said that I'm thinking about that it's hard to just answer one thing. One thing I wanted to say, though, that jumped out to me is that one of my colleagues, Allie Brosh, also writes about friendship a lot. She talks a lot about how friendship is inconvenient, and we have to just accept that sometimes it's going to be a little annoying to do these things and to show up for people. Some of the things that our caller was saying reminded me, yes, sometimes this is just kind of a hassle, but you got to do it anyway, that that's just how it works.
In terms of deciding whether a friendship is good or how to process it when it ends, I think people have got language for this around romantic relationships where you hear people say, "Well, that relationship ended after 10 years, but I don't consider it a failure," or "My divorce was the best thing that happened to me because it allowed me to be a better parent or to understand this thing about myself and to find this freedom, but I still have so much respect for my ex," or whatever the case may be.
I think thinking of relationships as not failures because they didn't last forever, just so few relationships will be lifelong relationships. That doesn't mean that they weren't really valuable. Sometimes friendships are sustained by convenience, by proximity, by the fact that I just have to walk out of my dorm and across the hall, and then I can hang out with you, and I'm having so much fun, but if I have to take two trains to see you, am I going to? Probably not, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't real before either.
I think just acknowledging that friendship can come in all of these different durations and types, and you can look back on them really fondly, or not, but you can look back on them and see them for what they were and see other people for who they were at the time, because that's the other thing. We can all acknowledge that we haven't been the best friend at certain times, and we regret that, but it's because that's where I was in my life and that's the knowledge that I had at the time, and I regret it, but I also can't change it.
I think just zooming out and looking at these intimate friend relationships that way is a really valuable exercise in reflecting what has it taught me, what did they mean to me. I think you can directly or quietly to yourself thank them for what they offered you in the moment and be okay with the fact that they maybe don't exist anymore.
Brittany Luse: I love that. It reminds me of a saying that I've heard before. Some people are in your life for a reason and some people for a season. I think that what you're talking about, Rachel, is like embracing, holding love and affection for our seasonal relationships and seasonal friendships, and I think that's beautiful. We got a call here from Barbara in Little Neck. Barbara, what's going on? What's your question?
Barbara: Hi.
Brittany Luse: Hey.
Barbara: This may sound silly, but I have an acquaintance, not a friend, that I made about two years ago. We had mani-pedis together.
Brittany Luse: Oh, yes.
Barbara: Then I was having surgery, and she's been very nice and texts me. No calls, but just texting. She seems to have decided that she's sharing with me that she does jigsaw puzzles-
[laughter]
Barbara: -and she sends me the jigsaw puzzles all the time. Then what she does is she breaks them up and gives them to charity, which is wonderful, but I have like 4,000 jigsaw puzzles on my phone.
Brittany Luse: [laughs] I see.
Barbara: [laughs] I'm sorry.
Brittany Luse: I see. I see. I see. Wait, so she's sending you pictures of the jigsaw puzzles that she's doing?
Barbara: Right. She's sending me what she finished.
Brittany Luse: Oh, okay. You don't want to get the pictures anymore?
Barbara: No.
Brittany Luse: Got you. First of all, Barbara, I hope you're recuperating from your surgery. Wow, I'm a little stumped on this one. Rachel, what do we do about the friend who won't stop sending the jigsaw puzzle photos? I think the jigsaw puzzle photos could be a stand-in for anything. It could be cat photos. I don't know. There's all sorts of different types of-- Maybe you love someone, but you're like, "Okay, I don't know if I need another update on your Wordle score."
Rachel Wilkerson Miller: Right. This is so tough because you don't want to bring a huge, heavy solution to this problem necessarily. That could just really make it so much more complicated and not be worth it. I think, if you have an iPhone, this is a great opportunity to start using the tapped heart reaction of just like, "I'm acknowledging receipt of this, but there's not much more I can say." Maybe depending on the frequency, you might not hit every single one with a reaction, and just some of them you let pass you by.
To me, this is a person who's trying to connect. It's less about the jigsaw puzzles and more about the desire to connect. That's one way of seeing it. Another way of seeing it is she just wants to tell somebody about this, and she's choosing you, and it has nothing to do with you, and she's not trying to connect. I would say if she's never asking you what's going on in your life and is not interested in anything about you, then that's probably a sign that the puzzles are not as much a desire to connect with you, but a desire to connect with someone.
If it's just about someone and you don't want to be that someone, I think it's okay to just let this one start to slow down and maybe evolve away and go away. If there's a desire to connect and you're interested in that desire to connect, then you could just pivot and ask her what else she's got going on because maybe there's more to her than puzzles and she just wants to be asked, and she wants to ask you how you're doing, too.
Brittany Luse: I love that. We're acknowledging bids for connection, but at this point, I think I've actually got to disconnect. We are getting to the end of the show. My guest has been Rachel Wilkerson Miller, journalist and author of The Art of Showing Up: How to Be There for Yourself and Your People, and the upcoming The Nice Life, out in December: How to Elevate the Everyday and Find Joy in What You Have. Thank you so much, Rachel, for joining us. Appreciate it.
Coming up next week on Please Advise, the show will be hosted by Manoush Zomorodi, a journalist covering the intersection of tech and what it means to be human. She'll be talking about AI, medical technology, and the impact of social media on kids. If you've got questions about any of that, you can submit them ahead of time at wnyc.org/advice. I'm Brittany Luse. You can catch me on my podcast, It's Been a Minute from NPR. This has been Please Advise.
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