On today's episode of WNYC's new popup advice show, Tiffany Hanssen leads a conversation about fashion and personal style, alongside Avery Trufelman, host of the podcast Articles of Interest, and Robin Givhan, Pulitzer-winning writer and fashion editor. Listeners call in with their advice and experience with personal style and with their questions about trends, tastes and more.
Note: You are listening to the podcast version of a live radio show. The call-in number only works between 1 and 2 PM Eastern, while the show is live.
If you'd like to submit questions or topic suggestions outside of the live show, please use the form on our showpage at wnyc.org/advise
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Tiffany Hansen: Welcome to "Please Advise," a pop-up advice show from WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hansen. During this hour on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays and, this week only, on Thursday, too, we will talk with experts, authors, advocates, and others to get their advice on all sorts of topics. Since we've just wrapped up Fashion Week here in New York City, we thought it would be a good time to take up style, specifically personal style.
Are you still trying to figure out your personal style? You can call us with questions. Maybe you're on the fence about how to style trends or whether to even follow trends at all. Maybe you're entering a new life stage, and you're looking for advice on how to feel your best. Call us, text us, 212-433-9692. Maybe you also have some style advice to share. Would you like to tell-- do you have some advice that someone gave you about your personal style that you think is worth sharing? Call us, text us, 212-433-9692.
Is personal style more about feeling, or trends, or the life stage you're in? What defines personal style? To answer that question, we have with us today Avery Trufelman. Avery is the former producer of a radio show you may recognize the name of, 99% Invisible, it's a radio show, and it was a podcast. She is the current host, however, of the podcast Articles of Interest, and Avery joins us now to talk about style. Hi, Avery.
Avery Trufelman: Hi.
Tiffany Hansen: Okay, let's just start with maybe some definition for folks who, if they say, "What does she mean when she talks about personal style?"
Avery Trufelman: This the great question, right? I think there's a lot of discourse going on about what is personal style, and it's a little self-explanatory. It's the way you look, the way you dress, I would argue the way you hold yourself, the way you conduct yourself, the way you smell, everything about you. It's fundamentally this question of do your outsides match your insides? Are you presenting in the world the way you want to be perceived, I think?
Tiffany Hansen: That is done through all of the elements of personal style, which, as you allude to, include things like the clothes I'm wearing, the jewelry I'm wearing, the perfume, the cologne I'm wearing, the scarf, the pocket square, the whatever it is. All of the accoutrements.
Avery Trufelman: It's all of the accoutrements, but I also think-- The thing about fashion is it gets actually quite existential quite quickly, because sure, a lot of it is what you buy and what you consume and what you like, but so much of it is also a way of holding yourself and the way you are. When Love Story came out, and everyone was trying to dress like Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy and just wearing a black t-shirt and black pants-
Tiffany Hansen: I saw that, yes.
Avery Trufelman: -and she just made it look so great, and it was considered fabulous personal style, but it was really about who she was and how she carried herself. It's this alchemy of what you wear and how you wear it.
Tiffany Hansen: We're talking about personal style today. Do you have some questions? Are you trying to figure out your personal style? You can call us with questions. Maybe you're on the fence about how to style trends, whether to follow those trends. 212-433-9692. Maybe you have some style advice that kind of always stuck with you that you want to just share with us. Call us, text us, 212-433-9692. When I think about somebody who has a very specific personal style, Iris Apfel.
Avery Trufelman: Yes.
Tiffany Hansen: Fran Lebowitz. I can absolutely tell, like for Iris Apfel, for example, it's the chunky bracelets, it's the glasses, it's the bold prints. I wonder if that is a limiting element to them. In other words, I wonder if you think that personal style can sometimes be limiting?
Avery Trufelman: I think that's one of the beautiful things about personal style is when you think of someone like David Bowie, and he is someone who, of course, had incredible personal style. He was a muse to almost every fashion designer. He had so many different chapters and different stages he went through, whether you're thinking of like Aladdin Sane or Thin White Duke or, he was always exploring, always growing, always changing, but it was always still him.
I think part of it was these are amazing examples you cited, but someone like Iris Apfel, part of her personal style was that it was so reflective of-- she was an amazing trendsetter and a collector, and she would gather clothes from places she went to, designers she was friends with. It was very much a reflection of her interesting, eclectic life. I think it can be a reflection of your entire personality. Which is the other thing about fashion, right, is because we are all destined to change. Our bodies change, our sizes change--
Tiffany Hansen: I have about 15 questions for you on that.
Avery Trufelman: Our interests change. Like you will change. There's nothing you can do about it. Even if you were to wear the exact same outfit and you were somehow miraculously able to fit in the exact same outfit, it would look completely different on you at different stages of your life. We have no choice but to grow and change, and so personal style can be a North Star, a guiding principle.
Tiffany Hansen: Somebody like Iris Apfel or Fran Lebowitz, I just pulled them out because they have such a recognizable style. When you look at Fran Lebowitz, what do you think-- is she making a statement, and does her personal style make a statement for her?
Avery Trufelman: [laughs] Of course Fran Lebowitz would probably say that she's not trying to make a statement, but if you listen to her interviews, she really does care about the clothes themselves. This was something that I was really excited to talk about, because I do think that so much of personal style just comes from loving the objects themselves, not necessarily thinking, "How cool am I going to look in this?" I think, if I'm remembering correctly, Fran Lebowitz has a very particular kind of jeans she likes, a very particular kind of jacket she likes, and I don't know if she would call these style decisions, but they are ways she likes to-- they just make her feel good. They work for her, and she likes them, and that's part of personal style.
I think Iris Apfel's the other direction, there are so many makers and textile traditions and kinds of clothes that she just wants to wear on herself like a museum. I think a lot of it is whether you're dressing for expediency or convenience or comfort, or explore-- I'm wearing this admittedly bonkers little dress that my friend made, and I just loved it as a work of art, and I wanted to wear it and put it on my body. I think loving the clothes themselves is a really big part of creating a personal style.
Tiffany Hansen: We are talking personal style. Are you trying to figure out your personal style? Are you on the fence about trends? Maybe you have some style advice that really stuck with you, something that you have learned and incorporated into your wardrobe, into your life, into your thinking about style, 212-433-9692. You can call us, you can text us at that number. We're going to bring Hanes in Brooklyn into the conversation. Hi, Hanes.
Hanes: Hello. How are you?
Tiffany Hansen: Doing all right. You got a question?
Hanes: Yes, my question is, my girlfriend is just starting a new job, her first job in finance, and she's not really entirely sure what to wear to the office as a young woman. How formal it should be, what to wear, what's going to be comfortable, what's going to keep her warm in a very cold office, so I'm wondering if you guys have any advice.
Tiffany Hansen: Yes, thanks so much.
Avery Trufelman: Congratulations to her.
Tiffany Hansen: Yes, first of all, congratulations, exactly. Office style has changed.
Avery Trufelman: Very much so, very much so. I think it's been a real gotcha moment where people arrive to offices overdressed in a very casual work environment, or they're underdressed in what is actually a formal environment, and sometimes it's really hard to tell because not all the interviews are in person. You're walking in cold on the first day, which is interesting.
I personally like to err on the side of overdressing, because then you could tell people that you're going to a party after work. No one knows where you're coming from or going to, which is the fun thing about overdressing a little bit. I don't know Hanes's girlfriend's personal style, but I think a really important thing-- someone who designs wedding dresses told me this. I was asking what to look for in a wedding dress, and she's like, "You really have to look for what you reach for every day. What kinds of necklines do you like, what kind of sleeves do you like?" You don't want to feel like you're wearing a costume. You still want to feel like yourself and still feel comfortable. Of course, it should still reflect the things she likes to wear, but maybe carry a blazer in a bag just in case.
Tiffany Hansen: I was going to say, what about layering? What if you, for example, if you take take the advice to overdress, and you get there, and you're like, "Okay, everybody is in jeans and T-shirts," but if you have a scarf on, for example, you can take the scarf off and stuff it in your bag. You could throw-- to your point, throw the blazer on. You could de-accessorize yourself a little bit.
Avery Trufelman: Exactly, exactly.
Tiffany Hansen: That is one of the benefits, I guess, of like overdoing, just-- nobody's talking sequins at the-- what is it? A finance--
Avery Trufelman: [laughs] No.
Tiffany Hansen: In a finance office, but whatever.
Avery Trufelman: Whatever.
Tiffany Hansen: Yes, so overdo with the ability to dial down.
Avery Trufelman: Yes, exactly, and I always think that just a button-down white collared shirt is always a good base, because you can always make that more casual. You can always unbutton it loose and wear it loosely, or tighten it up. I like to wear a white button-down shirt, and maybe a vest or something a little fun, and then a blazer, and you can always take layers off and make it as funky or as formal as you want. Yes, layers and accessories are your friend.
Tiffany Hansen: Excellent. We're talking with Avery Trufelman, the host of the podcast Articles of Interest. We're talking about personal style. Chime in with your questions, 212-433-9692. Avery, we have a text here that says, "I'm a mom of two very little kids, 3 and 12 months. I'm having a lot of trouble finding a style that makes me feel good, but also able to run after two toddlers. My body is so different from pre-children. Any advice?"
Avery Trufelman: Oh, man. It's really interesting because I do think, notoriously-- any consumer brand will tell you this, the moment after pregnancy is considered this goldmine for brands. They're like, "Oh, this when consumer tastes are really going to change. Someone is really rethinking all of their style needs and what they want." The cool thing is we are living in the golden age of athleisure. It is so fun to find comfortable, breathable clothes that are ostensibly for working out or sports, but can just be for living your life.
A great brand I love is Gnuhr, G-H-N-U-R, or did I spell it wrong? Yes, G-H-N-U-R. It's an amazing company run by Nur Abbas. He used to be in high fashion, and he used to work for Yeezy, and he makes these very simple, deceptively simple-looking clothes that are meant to be worn on hikes, they're breathable, and they're really, really innovative. I think there are a lot of companies experimenting with stretchy, breathable fabrics, like that's one-- a lot of these brands out of the Pacific Northwest.
A classic example that I love is also Issey Miyake and the Pleats Please line. They're all tightly, tightly pleated clothes. They can stretch to fit your form. I really recommend those for my friends who have had kids and they need to dress up for formal events, and they don't know what to do. There are some amazing Issey Miyake clothes that you can wrap around your body in lots of different ways and wear them however you want. Yes, performance fabrics, I think, they're not just for the gym.
Tiffany Hansen: After I had my first son, I went too far into the deep end of sweatpants.
Avery Trufelman: Oh, really? [laughs]
Tiffany Hansen: A friend of mine came over, and she was like, "We're going shopping this afternoon."
Avery Trufelman: What is your advice?
Tiffany Hansen: Yes, I think go with a friend, because you're probably not feeling as confident about yourself as maybe you had before you had children, and I think that having a buddy is a really great way to go looking when you are really trying to redefine your style, because you need somebody who's going to not just be a yes-man, but somebody who knows where you're headed and who knows where your mindset's at, because a lot of it is about mindset, right?
Avery Trufelman: A lot of it is about mindset, and I think a lot of it is also being inspired. We were just talking about this before the mics came on, so much of how we present ourselves is looking at other people, seeing someone and thinking, "Oh, wow, they look great." It's nice to get your inspiration from all kinds of places, to look at movies, look at what your favorite musicians are wearing, really think about whose style you admire and want to channel.
Tiffany Hansen: Some great texts coming in here, Avery. "Can we just talk about Michelle Obama?"
Avery Trufelman: [laughs]
Tiffany Hansen: "Accessible, practical, down-to-earth, simple, confident. Love her personal style, and seems like outside really and inside really match." She's someone, I will say, that I don't look at her and go, "I know what she's going to wear." You don't know necessarily what she's going to wear, but when she does wear it, somehow it still fits her style.
Avery Trufelman: Yes, as soon as she puts it on, it's her, yes. Again, I really do think this was a real-- because she was such a powerful fashion diplomat as First Lady. She really supported up-and-coming American designers in a way that introduced a lot of young brands like Phillip Lim and Prabal Gurung and hearkened in this new era of young American fashion design. I think, to me, that is the common thread, is she really wore what she liked and what she admired, designs that she, I think, was really excited to have the privilege of wearing.
Tiffany Hansen: Here's someone I-- a texter that I think we should give a pep talk to. "What is considered 'appropriate'", I'm putting the air quotes up, "'appropriate' wear for a--" another air quote, "'seasoned, mature woman'? I don't like jeans, but when I wear a tailored pant and a twinset, my daughter tells me I look like I'm going to work." I'm going to just step in as a seasoned woman, [laughs] a Gen X, and say the word 'appropriate', let's just throw that out. We should just take that and put that right in the trash can.
Avery Trufelman: Oh, it's so hard to do.
Tiffany Hansen: It's so hard to do. Also, I think we do get hung up, especially-- I was asking you, again, before we got started here, it's hard for us as we age, I think, to still feel comfortable in a style that is evolving.
Avery Trufelman: Yes. I already feel it now. It's so funny, I'm I'm 35, and I can feel myself aging out of things. I'm like, "Maybe I shouldn't be wearing miniskirts anymore." You have this appropriate mind police in your head. I think that I am so excited to dress for every single stage of my life because no one dresses better than seasoned dressers. How do I put this? I recently saw-- this is going to be throwing a little bit of fashion shade. I recently saw Robyn when she was performing at Barclays, and incredible, like an amazing performer, so beautiful, so strong, incredible voice, had the whole audience wrapped in the palm of her hand, but her style, I think, it was very-- she was wearing a lot of bras and panties, and it was not evolved.
I was like, "Robyn, you are at an age where you have experienced so much life, you are so seasoned as an artist, you could dress in whatever you want. You could dress like Björk if you wanted to. You could really, really take a risk." I think this the cool thing about people who are older and more established and they know who they are, they could really make-- Do you know the blog Advanced Style?
Tiffany Hansen: Yes.
Avery Trufelman: Yes, these are women who are wearing whatever, soup cans as bracelets. They're wearing whatever they want because they don't care anymore.
Tiffany Hansen: What's the message there?
Avery Trufelman: The message there is that-- I feel that the older I get-- I think when you're young, you don't have a lot of ways to express yourself. You don't have a platform, you don't have a way to write books, you don't have your own friends, you don't have your own voice out in the world. I think a lot of people who have felt disempowered historically have used their clothes and their bodies to express themselves. I think the older you get and the more of a voice that you have cultivated, whether through your work or your family or your community, you can express yourself in a richer, deeper variety of ways, including clothes.
Tiffany Hansen: Yes. Let's bring Christine in Basking Ridge into this conversation, Avery. Hi, Christine.
Christine: Oh, hi.
Avery Trufelman: Hi.
Tiffany Hansen: Hi. Yes, you had a question?
Christine: Yes, it's similar to what you were just talking about, about maybe sometimes like wearing sexy things. I do cosplay, and I just came from a Comic Con in Atlanta, and I'm gearing up for New York Comic Con in October. There's a lot of anime characters that are very sexualized. I did a sexualized version of a House of the Dragon character, and somebody posted it online, and I got a lot of new followers, but I got a lot of people also really trash-talking it, saying it was disrespectful to the other cosplayers, which I know isn't true because a lot of the other cosplayers were complimenting me. I just wanted to get your take, because now I'm second-guessing whether or not I'm going to bring it to New York Comic Con.
Tiffany Hansen: Oh.
Avery Trufelman: Oh, no, I'm so sorry.
Tiffany Hansen: Christine, yes, okay, first of all, just don't listen to the haters. I hear it in your voice, so, Avery
Avery Trufelman: It's so hard to do because clothing is so inherently social, and the thing that I was thinking about is when I first started experimenting with style, people would react, and sometimes this wasn't necessarily a bad thing, even if they were like, "Whoa, look at you." I hated the feeling of getting other people's attention, when I was like, "I really just want to dress for myself." It's a really hard thing to take into account, but ultimately, what I'm hearing in your voice is that you do still want to wear it and you are still excited to wear it.
The way we dress now presents such a different conundrum because now there's this element of posting online. We don't just dress for where we go in a physical space and the environment we're at, which is Comic Con. Now, it's a picture on the internet that--
Tiffany Hansen: Your advice would be wear it?
Avery Trufelman: If you want to.
Tiffany Hansen: Yes.
Avery Trufelman: If you want to. I do also think that there's a lot of pressure to say like, "Just wear it anyway." If it makes you uncomfortable getting attention, you don't have to. If it outweighs it and it seems like you really want to wear it, you should do it.
Tiffany Hansen: Gut check.
Avery Trufelman: Yes.
Tiffany Hansen: Gut check. I have a good text here. "My name is Carmina. I work at a cosmetics store. I'm always a little disappointed when young women come in and buy a fragrance because it's popular on TikTok without even smelling it. What advice would you give for finding your signature fragrance?"
Avery Trufelman: Ooh, that's so fun. I love fragrance. They're definitely buying samples. Samples are really affordable, and they're easy to get, or going to a perfume store. There are amazing stores, especially in New York City, like Stile is incredible, and you can talk to people. That's my favorite thing. If you can say, "I want something that smells like a cave after the rain," you can describe things and play around, and have fun. The other thing I'll say is I never fault people for following trends, even if it's just trends they've seen on TikTok. I think it's a fundamentally sweet thing.
Tiffany Hansen: [chuckles] I might have to take issue with that, but first, before I do that, let's bring Lola in Chelsea into the conversation. Hi, Lola.
Lola: Hello. You mentioned the bra and panties look of a performer. What's your take on that as streetwear? Regardless of body type, and also the sheer leggings, not the Alo kind or something substantial, regardless of the body type?
Tiffany Hansen: Yes, I got you. Thanks, Lola. That's a good one. All right, underwear as streetwear.
Avery Trufelman: Which is funny, I'm saying this wearing a dress made out of bras. I think--
Tiffany Hansen: The irony was not lost on me. Yes.
Avery Trufelman: Yes. All of it depends on who's wearing it and how comfortable they feel, and if they're rocking it. I think it's a beautiful thing to see someone really confident and rocking a very pared-down outfit. Yes. I don't have a problem with it.
Tiffany Hansen: All right then.
Avery Trufelman: I think that they're like an amazing part of sartorial tradition.
Tiffany Hansen: I like it. We are talking about personal style. Do you have questions as you are navigating finding your personal style? Maybe you have some advice that someone gave you, some style advice that you'd love to share with us? Either way, call us, text us, 212-433-9692. We're talking with Avery Truffleman, who is the host of a podcast called Articles of Interest. Note, in a little bit here, we're going to talk with Robin Givhan, who's an award-winning fashion writer and just the most stylish woman, I think, I've ever met. She'll join the conversation here, but right now, we're going to take a quick break. You are listening to Please Advise. It's a pop-up advice show here on WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hansen. Stick around.
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Tiffany Hansen: Welcome to Please Advise, or welcome back, I should say. It's a pop-up advice show here at WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hansen. We're talking about style, personal style today. 212-433-9692, if you have questions about personal style as you're trying to navigate your personal style through life changes, through just wanting something different, whatever it is, 212-433-9692. We have with us Avery Truffleman, who is the host of the podcast Articles of Interest. Soon, we will have Robin Givhan joining us as well. Oh, Robin is with us now. Kate, my producer, is giving me the thumbs up. Robin, hello. Oh, there she is. Welcome. Hi.
Robin Givhan: Hello.
Tiffany Hansen: Thanks so much for joining us, Robin. I was just going to take issue with Avery really quick-
Robin Givhan: Oh no.
Tiffany Hansen: -about this trend business, because I was speaking with a colleague here in the newsroom who said one thing that she really is loath to see on TikTok is when a young influencer, and they're usually young, says, "Okay, girlies, here's the shoe we're buying this season." What you end up with is a monoculture of fashion. I wonder has-- First of all, opinions on that? Then, second of all, has TikTok and other social media done more harm than good to people finding their own personal style?
Avery Truffleman: Ah, such good questions, both. One thing I will say about trends is I feel like trends are like love. Love exists. Love is something that happens, and it has been totally hijacked by Valentine's Day and the diamond industry and all these things you're supposed to buy to prove your love. I think, similarly, trends have always existed, people have always followed each other. It's even out in the animal kingdom. You can read these articles about how Orcas will wear-- There was this trend among Orcas where one started wearing salmon as a hat, and other Orcas started following them.
Tiffany Hansen: Wait, you're talking about the animal?
Avery Truffleman: The animal, Orcas. Like, really, other animals have trends. It's like part of the way that we identify with a group that happens.
Tiffany Hansen: The old Orca trend.
Avery Truffleman: The old Orca trend, yes. Orcas wearing hats, but they did, you can look it up. That's the thing. I do think even though we are-- and I think it's a sweet impulse that we follow each other, we look to each other, we say, "That person's cool, I want to be more like them." It has been totally hijacked by-- This need and this desire to fit in with a group has been hijacked by commerce, it's moving at a rapid pace, and this idea that there's supposed to be a new shoe every couple weeks-
Tiffany Hansen: That we all have to go by.
Avery Truffleman: -that we all have is ridiculous. I don't think the fundamental desire to follow trends, or to see something that you think is interesting and want to follow it, I don't think that is inherently bad or shameful. I just think it's getting exploited.
Tiffany Hansen: Robin, one of the things that you've said to me in the past-- oh, she says, is that-- Well, I'll let you explain it. We were talking about women who see French women and say, "They're so stylish, I wish I could be like French women and have such a wonderful sense of style." Do you remember what you said to me?
Robin Givhan: Yes, well, [chuckles] it was this idea that, I think, particularly in the US, there is this belief that having a great sense of personal style is something that you emerge from the womb already possessing. It's really-- I will admit that there are probably 10 people for whom great personal style is just like embedded in their DNA. For everyone else, it really comes as a matter of trial and error. It's the trying that is the essential part. The reason that I think so many Americans look at the French or Italians and say, "Oh, my god, they just have such great style," it's because they try. It's because they work at it. It's because having a sense of style is considered something that is worthwhile.
I think in the States, it's not looked at as something that's particularly worthwhile. It's looked at as something, "Oh, it's so great if you have it." If you are working at it, struggling to find it, practicing at it, so to speak, it's looked at as, "Oh, you're just superficial and wasting your time."
Tiffany Hansen: How do you talk with someone who says, "I don't really care about that. I don't pay attention to fashion, I don't care about fashion, I wear whatever I want"? Does that bug you when you hear that?
Robin Givhan: It bugs me in the same way when people say, "I don't care about what I eat." Really, you don't? You don't care if your food's good, if it's healthy, if it delights you, you just want to eat sludge?
[laughter]
Robin Givhan: I think, just to pick up on your earlier question about trends and the algorithms and all that, I think for sure TikTok exacerbates things, but I think about every generation of teenagers and 20-somethings, like they go through this process in which they're trying to figure out who they are, and part of that is you're attaching yourself to a tribe. What does that tribe do? They all dress the same. I was definitely one of those 20-somethings who called up my girlfriend, and I said, "Oh, what are you wearing to this party?" They share a description, perhaps, of what they're wearing, and it's why you end up at this party, and even in the era before TikTok, it looked like, "Did all these people just get dressed from the same closet, and it's just a variation on a theme?"
To me, that is the process of self-definition. The people who say that they don't care, that it's not important to them, that is the tribe that they have chosen. It's not that they aren't engaged in fashion, it's just that they have chosen this tribe that has defined itself as one of refusal.
Tiffany Hansen: That is the voice of Robin Givhan. She is an award-winning fashion writer. We're talking about personal style with Robin and with Avery Truffleman, who is the host of a podcast called Articles of Interest. We have Kevin in Murray Hill with a question. Hi, Kevin.
Kevin: Hey, good afternoon. My question is, so I moved to New York about 30 years ago, and at that time, it appeared that there were no rules in New York, and I loved that. It seemed like you could wear a little bit from this era and a little bit from that era, and that would create your style. Now it seems like the rules are back, so that's my question to your guest. Are the rules back again?
Tiffany Hansen: Avery, are rules back?
Avery Truffleman: Are rules back? Hmm. I don't know. It's hard to say. I mean, not knowing this listener's age or the time that they're referring to. I know that I feel this way personally, that I felt much freer 10 years ago, but I think that was part of exactly this phenomenon that Robin was talking about. I think that was the era where I was trying things out in my 20s.
Tiffany Hansen: Kevin, are you still there?
Kevin: There seems to be more judgments today. Just for instance, I'm a gay man who's 65, and I'm just like a classic prep, but in a deliberate way. I choose Ralph Lauren and J.Press and old-school prep, but with an urban twist.
Avery Truffleman: Yes, your time is now.
Kevin: This is how I have been dressing for 30, 40 years. Frequently, I get from other gay men, "Why are you dressing so straight?" I'm like, "That's a weird question." Excuse me.
Avery Truffleman: [laughs]
Tiffany Hansen: [chuckles] You are listening to a pop-up advice show. It is called Please Advise, and we are talking about personal style today with, yes, two guests. We have with us Avery Truffleman, she is the host of a podcast called Articles of Interest, and we're also talking with award-winning fashion writer Robin Givhan. We're talking a little bit about style rules. I have a text here I want to read. "I used to work in the fashion industry for 15 years, so all my clothes are super dressy, but now I work from home remotely. I'm age 50. How should I dress to feel good about myself when nothing in my closet works for my lifestyle anymore and, frankly, doesn't fit anymore?"
Robin, I'm curious how you might answer this question in terms of how our view changes throughout our lifetime as-- We're just coming off of Fashion Week, and it's a moment of inspiration for a lot of us to look and see what designers are putting forward. Not in a trendy way, but just in a really artistic, inspirational view of what the fashion industry is doing and thinking right now. For someone in a life stage-- they worked in fashion, they're 50, nothing fits anymore, you can go into a Fashion Week like this on a down note. I wonder how you can still find some of that inspiration when you feel like you've lost your sense of style.
Robin Givhan: I think that's a really difficult question in that when someone says, "The clothes don't fit me anymore," are we talking about just like a purely basic thing like, "I can't get these pants up anymore?" That's a whole other question and a whole other issue because you need to have clothes that fit. If it's a matter of they don't fit my lifestyle, or they don't fit my sensibility, or I feel like they're not-- her description of, or the description of "My clothes are so much dressier than what my life demands", I tend to feel like we're always doing this balancing act of dressing for ourselves, but also dressing for others.
By that, I don't necessarily mean trying to follow these rules, these arbitrary rules, although that is sometimes the case. It's also this idea of dressing to show your respect for someone, to show that you appreciate the time and effort that they put into hosting a dinner party, and you want to show up like you put some time and effort into--
Tiffany Hansen: You care.
Robin Givhan: That was meaningful to you. I would say that if I have clothes in my closet that I still really love, but just because I'm not going to a fancy industry party doesn't mean that I would stop wearing them. I would wear those clothes to a friend's house for dinner. I would wear them to dinner at some restaurant. During COVID, I pulled out skirts and dresses from my closet that made me happy because wearing sweatpants and a T-shirt did not make me happy when I was locked in my home.
Tiffany Hansen: Avery, I want to answer a question here for sure that we received from a listener via our website. I should add, by the way, that we-- on our website, wnyc.org, if you click on wnyc.org/advice, you can always leave questions for us there as well. You can call us and text us at 212-433-9692, but we do have our website up and running, wnyc.org/advice, if you would like to submit your question that way. We did get one, Avery. I'm bringing this up because you mentioned wedding attire earlier. The questioner says-- Oh, it's Robin. Not this Robin. Not our Robin, different Robin.
Avery Truffelman: Another Robin.
Tiffany Hansen: A different Robin. "I'm getting married next year for the first time in my 50s, and I don't want to wear white. Where can I find a bridal gown that is purple or silver?" She says, "Kleinfeld's only has white, thanks." Any advice for, maybe not necessarily even a location, but maybe just some advice for maybe finding wedding attire that isn't at a wedding store?
Avery Truffelman: Yes, yes. Vintage is always your friend. This was something I was going to say to the last listener too, is don't be afraid to go to a tailor. Don't be afraid to get your clothes taken out or refit for you. Yes, I think some of my friends-- some of the best-dressed brides I know just found vintage dresses they loved and brought them to a tailor and made them work for them. I think that would be my advice, although there is an increasing trend where a lot of bridal dresses are no longer just white. You can check the bridal websites, but just yes, it doesn't have to be a wedding dress.
Tiffany Hansen: Expand the horizons. This dovetails into a question we got here. "Any validity to finding your colors?"
Avery Truffelman: Ooh, I just did that. I think it was fun, but feel free to ignore it. I don't think it should be dogmatic. Have you heard about this thing, finding your colors?
Tiffany Hansen: I do not know about this.
Avery Truffelman: There are these consultants-- It's funny, it was actually a trend in the '80s that has been recently revived, like finding the colors that work best--
Robin Givhan: It's the thing where you wear like a spring or a fall or winter, or--
Tiffany Hansen: Oh, okay. Like this the palette you have to wear in order to look good?
Avery Truffelman: I think it's fun to explore what different colors look like on your skin and not take it--
Tiffany Hansen: Oh, so it's like I'm going to hold a color up to your face and I'm going to see if this thing looks--
Avery Truffelman: Totally. I think there are people who do take it as rules, like "You can't wear gold," but there are no rules. I don't know. What do you think of that, Robin, the color thing?
Robin Givhan: I think that definitely, just depending on your skin tone, certain colors are more flattering and bring out the warmth and depth in your skin tone. I do buy into that. You're right, I think that there are so many things that can affect the way that something is actually going to look on you that go so far beyond just the color that it's maybe a great starting point, but I don't think that it should ever be like this hard-and-fast rule.
Tiffany Hansen: I want to talk just really quick again, I mentioned it, Robin, about Fashion Week. I think what I'm curious about is, for the casual viewer of what happens in Fashion Week and what we see during Fashion Week, how can we bring a little bit of that art into our personal style?
Robin Givhan: Yes, I think that people should look at Fashion Week as a source of inspiration. I don't think that they need to be looking at it necessarily for a list of the next 10 things that they're going to buy. I think they should use it the same way that you might walk through an art gallery or a museum or listen to music. It inspires you, and it helps you, I think, get your own creative juices flowing. It's funny to me because I always feel like every Fashion Week that I would cover, invariably someone would have this outraged tone in their voice, and they would say, "Who on Earth is going to wear what they're putting on the runway?"
I would think to myself, "Why are you so upset?" No one is wrestling you to the ground and forcing you into Comme des Garçons. Like, okay. It's just meant to be inspiration. Yes, there are some brands that are very much accessible, and you can wear everything that they put on the runway in under the most simple circumstances. Just enjoy it. Don't look at it as a mandate.
Tiffany Hansen: We're talking with-- Well, first of all, you're listening to Please Advice. This a pop-up advice show here at WNYC, and we are talking about personal style today. We're talking with Avery Truffelman, who's the host of the podcast Articles of Interest, and we're talking with fashion writer Robin Givhan. We want you in the conversation, of course. Are you struggling with a style choice, a style decision, trying to figure out your personal style? Do you have some advice for someone trying to figure out their personal style? You can call us, you can text us, 212-433-9692.
We are going to take a quick break, and Robin, when we come back, I want to have just a really brief conversation with you about Bob Mackie, who we just lost, and what we can take from him for our personal style. Right now, you're listening to WNYC. It's Please Advice. I'm Tiffany Hansen, we'll be right back.
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Tiffany Hansen: You're listening to Please Advice, a pop-up advice show here at WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hansen. Thanks so much for spending part of your day with us. We're talking about personal style right now. 212-433-9692 if you have questions about finding your personal style, need a little advice, or maybe you have some advice to give. We're talking with Robin Givhan and Avery Truffelman.
Robin, someone taking up our notion here of Parisian women having style. "The notion that French-- " this a texter, "The notion that French women have a style is preconceived. When traveling to France, it becomes apparent that most people dress alike. However, people here in New York City show a lot more creativity and freedom in their style. My advice is, if you live in New York City, go for a walk, [chuckles] and you'll find a lot of inspiration." I have to say, this city-- I will concur that the city, if you look around, you can find-- we're talking about places to find inspiration, you can find inspiration walking around the streets of New York City, right, Robin?
Robin Givhan: Yes. I spent 10 years living in New York, and one of the things that I would always say to people is that the city is filled with style inspiration. I also said to them, like-- try to tamp it down just a little bit and say, "It really depends on where you're walking," because walking around the Financial District was not exactly this font of creative, stylish- of style creativity. There are definitely wonderful neighborhoods, and just get your face out of your phone and look around you.
Tiffany Hansen: Good text here, Avery. This listener, a husband, needs a little advice on what to say to a spouse who always asks about their choice of clothing but takes the responses too personally if I don't respond with enthusiasm all the time. "I think that men are often placed between this rock and hard place when their wives ask them for opinions on their clothing choices." [laughs] This is a broad debate, I think, we're wading into here. I wonder how much of when we are asking for advice or opinions about what we wear is really just looking for validation, which I think is what our texter might be asking about. How much of that is just validation for us?
Avery Truffelman: Of course, it depends on the person, but yes, I do think a lot of it--
Robin Givhan: Who you're asking.
Avery Truffelman: Yes, exactly. This was a famous theme on The Nanny, where it was like, "Just tell her she looks great," and sure. Sometimes you just want to be validated, but everyone wants to believe that they look good. Everybody wants to look really nice, and that's the other thing about clothing, is it's so social. To a degree, you're doing it for yourself, but you're also doing it for other people.
I personally, when I ask my husband if he likes what I'm wearing, I just want to feel what Robin was talking about earlier, that we both care about this thing, that we're both interested in clothing, and that he's curious about why I'm dressing and where I got the dress from, and what the story is behind it. My advice to him would be, start by asking questions.
Tiffany Hansen: Oh, that's good advice.
Avery Truffelman: Say, "Where is that from?" Or like, "Where'd you get that color?" Or "Who's that designer?" Maybe turn it into a conversation rather than just, "You look great, honey." Also say that. You can also say that.
Tiffany Hansen: That's good advice. Robin, anything to chime in on that?
Robin Givhan: No, I think that is excellent advice. I love the idea of engaging in a conversation about it instead of just checking a box.
Tiffany Hansen: Jane in Manhattan here has a question. Hi, Jane.
Jane: Hi. You want my question?
Tiffany Hansen: Sure do.
Jane: Okay. I'm a woman of a certain age. I have large breasts, but a good figure, and I want to know how to avoid looking dumpy.
Tiffany Hansen: Okay, Jane, thanks for the call. "Dumpy", it's a loaded word. Avery, how would you suggest she finds a-- I think what she's looking for is a style for her body type that makes her feel good?
Avery Truffelman: Yes. Ooh.
Tiffany Hansen: Did I characterize that right, Jane?
Jane: Yes.
Tiffany Hansen: Okay, good.
Avery Truffelman: It's always so context-dependent. Jane, do you work in an artsy field where you want to wear lots of caftans and things? What are you dressing for?
Jane: Just activities of daily living. I'm retired.
Tiffany Hansen: Living life.
Avery Truffelman: Ah, living life. I think so much of looking "dumpy" or put-together is, again, this matter of how you hold yourself. I think the other thing about fashion is, sure, people are looking at you, but also no one cares as much as you [laughs] you'd think. I don't think people are necessarily observing the cut of your outfit. I think they're looking at the way you hold yourself. I think whatever you have to do, whether it's putting on nice earrings or putting on a blazer-- just a little thing that makes you feel put-together and makes you feel like you're stepping out very intentionally into the world. Even when I like to wear something big and dumpy, I like to balance it by putting my hair up or doing something that shows a little extra effort.
Tiffany Hansen: A shot of confidence.
Avery Truffelman: A shot of confidence. Whatever you have to do, make yourself feel like you're having fun and that it's still a very intentional outfit, people will pick up on that.
Tiffany Hansen: Robin, we're getting down to the wire here, but I just wanted to ask you really quick about-- because we just lost Bob Mackie, and I think people are seeing and re-seeing--
Avery Truffelman: Is that a word?
Tiffany Hansen: Yes, it is today. A lot of his fashion right now. I wonder what inspiration we could take from what we see of his work.
Robin Givhan: When I think of Bob Mackie, I lean towards the costumes that he did or the stage garments that he did for people like Tina Turner and Miley Cyrus and Cher. I think what they all have in common is this real sense of just celebration and a party atmosphere. There's just such a joyousness to the work. I think that is one thing that we could all stand to inject into our daily wardrobe. I think we spend so much time worried about whether or not something is appropriate, or whether or not something is comfortable, that we forget to ask ourselves, "Do I actually really love wearing this?" I, for one, believe that we do not wear enough sparkles in our lives, and so I am always happy to put on some day sequins.
Tiffany Hansen: I love that. That's some good advice. I was bad-mouthing day sequins earlier in the program, and now I'm taking it back, Robin. I'm going to take back bad-mouthing the day sequins. Any last words, Avery, for someone who says, "I'm going to go out shopping this afternoon and try to revamp my personal style"? You have 30 seconds, go.
Avery Truffelman: You can't do it all at once. Do it little by little and make sure you love every single thing. Dress for the story of it. When someone asks you where something is from, you should have something to say about it. It should be something you really love, every single piece.
Tiffany Hansen: Robin Givhan, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. Thanks for joining us.
Robin Givhan: Pleasure.
Tiffany Hansen: Yes, Robin Givhan, an award-winning fashion writer, and Avery Truffelman, formerly the producer of a program that you might recognize, 99% Invisible, also the current host of a podcast, Articles of Interest. You have been listening here to Please Advice, it's a pop-up advice show. Coming up tomorrow, Amanda Holden is a former Wall Street banker who has a book out called How to Be a Rich Old Lady. We'll talk about that tomorrow. We're going to ask for some advice, we'll get your advice, so join us back here tomorrow. By the way, you can submit questions now at wnyc.org/advice. Avery, Robin, thank you.
Avery Truffelman: Thank you.
Robin Givhan: Thank you.
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