On today's episode of WNYC's new popup advice show, Tiffany Hanssen leads a conversation about managing your money, with child and family therapist Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler, author of The Crucial Years: The Essential Guide to Mental Health and Modern Puberty in Middle Childhood (Ages 6-12), and Mommy Burnout: How to Reclaim Your Life and Raise Healthier Children in the Process. Listeners call in with their questions and experiences about shepherding kids through the 'back-to-school' phase of the year.
Note: You are listening to the podcast version of a live radio show. The call-in number only works between 1 and 2 PM Eastern, while the show is live.
If you'd like to submit questions or topic suggestions outside of the live show, please use the form on our showpage at wnyc.org/advice
[silence]
Tiffany Hanssen: Welcome to Please Advise, a pop-up advice show from WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. During this hour on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays, we're talking with experts, authors, advocates, and others to get their advice on all sorts of topics. Today's subject is about navigating back-to-school for kids, parents, caregivers. New York City schools are off today for the Yom Kippur holiday, and so we thought it would be a good time to check in and see how things are going.
For some of us, this marks one full week of school under our belts, and we're wondering, "How did it go?" Are you looking for some advice on how to deal with the new school year? We would love to hear from you. 212-433-9692. You can call us; you can text us at that number. Maybe it's just not just back-to-school, but maybe you and your teens and tweens are trying to navigate balancing schoolwork with social media. Maybe there's a bully at school or a sensitive topic that you and the kids in your life have been dancing around and you need some advice for how to approach that conversation. Again, the number: 212-433-9692. You can call; you can text that number.
Whatever your question, whatever your advice, we've got the person to help us out here. Psychologist Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler is the author of The Crucial Years: The Essential Guide to Mental Health and Modern Puberty in Middle Childhood, Ages 6 to 12. Dr. Ziegler joins us now. Hi. Welcome to Please Advise.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Thanks so much for having me.
Tiffany Hanssen: Listener friends, of course, if you have some back-to-school advice that you want to share, something that's worked for you, we'd love to hear from you as well, whether you're a parent, caregiver, or not. Maybe it's something from your own childhood that worked for you that you experienced, that you think makes for great advice. 212-433-9692. Call us, text us at that number. Dr. Sheryl, okay, teens, tweens, undoubtedly dealing with a lot of stuff all the time. Social media, friendships, friend dynamics, family dynamics, body changes, big world, real-life changes. I guess my first question is just about the sheer magnitude of it all. How do you advise kids who might just be feeling overwhelmed?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Well, I think you really touched on the major points. There is so much going on. If we look at, specifically, let's say, middle schoolers, you do have that intersection of they're going through puberty. They're usually going to a new school with big demands, a lot more classes, more teachers, maybe fewer accommodations. Maybe somebody doesn't even know who you are. Whereas in elementary school, you had so much more of that attention, and you had a history of teachers behind you who knew who you were. There's a big change in the brain happening as well.
When we say puberty, puberty actually starts in the brain. A lot of times people are thinking, "Well, I don't know. My kid hasn't shown any acne." Or, "Maybe they don't have body odor yet," but if they have irritability, mood swings, if they're showing that inclination to start caring a little bit more about what their friends think than what their parents think, that's very likely puberty starting again in the brain. Meaning that wiring for social connections. It starts there, and it really is a collision of a lot of important things happening at one time.
Tiffany Hanssen: I wonder, when we say overwhelmed, that can look different for different kids. How do we know as grownups that what we're seeing is overwhelmed? Because we think, "My kid's just," I don't know, "flying off the handle, getting angry about stuff." How do we know that what we're seeing is overwhelmed?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Well, I think one of the first things to know is that each parent really is the expert on their own kid. If you're a parent and you're thinking, "They're acting different than they normally do," one day, not a big deal; two days, you start to get a bit curious. Let's say three days or more, as a rule of thumb, you say, "Okay, they've been more irritable," or "They've been more shut down." Right? Doesn't have to be lashing out. It could also be they're quieter, they're more shut down, and overwhelmed could be something that they're going through.
Let me just explain that even if it's not something exactly that you can pinpoint that's happening at school or on some sports team, what could be happening is, "My body's changing, my mind is changing, my moods are changing, and I don't understand this." That feels overwhelming. Then you compound with a typical social, academic environment. Usually it will feel overwhelming, but they don't have the words to tell you, "I'm overwhelmed," or "I don't understand what's happening to me. Can you help me out?" Like, "One day I feel this way, and the next day I feel differently. What does that mean?" A lot of times, kids at that age don't really have those words or even the comfort in a relationship to ask the question.
Tiffany Hanssen: As an adult, when I'm feeling overwhelmed, the last thing I want is somebody saying, "Are you overwhelmed?" "You seem stressed out. What can I do to help you?" It's just like, "Get out of my face."
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Yes.
Tiffany Hanssen: When parents come at an overwhelmed kid, teen, tween, and say, "How can I help you?" I can imagine that a good number of those overtures end with somebody being shut down and shut out. On the parent and caregiver, grown-up side of that, how do you deal with that?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: I love that you mentioned that. Now I'll talk about teens because they are the most likely to say, "Leave me alone," or "Nothing's wrong," or "I don't even know what you're talking about." They're most likely to do that. One of the first things to remember as a parent is: when you get that, when you get basically the slammed door in your face, sometimes literally—sometimes metaphorically—what that really means is, "I'm trying to figure this out on my own. Please don't make me give words to something that A, maybe I'm even trying to pretend isn't happening," or "B, if I say it out loud, it makes it real, and I don't want this thing to be real." "I have no one to sit with at lunch. My friend group totally ditched me. Everybody had a sleepover over the weekend. It's Monday morning. No one told me about it. I just found out about it."
"If I say that to you, Mom," or Dad, "as you ask me, it becomes real, and now I know I have to deal with this." Yes, it is easier. In the adult version is, "I'm fine; I got it. Don't worry, I'll be fine." "Oh, you seem overwhelmed." We're not very likely as adults to say, "You're right, I am overwhelmed. This thing is happening at work." We don't do that either. Don't take it personally, parents. It's their way of trying to cope.
Tiffany Hanssen: We are talking with Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler. She's the author of The Crucial Years: The Essential Guide to Mental Health and Modern Puberty in Middle Childhood. We are talking because kids are off school today. At least for a lot of kids here in New York City, it marks the first week of school under our belt, so we're doing a check-in. Would you like some advice on how to deal with this new school year? Do you have some advice to share? Do you have questions about maybe helping your teens, tweens, navigating schoolwork with social media, bullying, friendships? We touched on that a little bit. I'm sure we'll get around to it again. 212-433-9692. You can call us; you can text us with your questions.
It's back-to-school. A lot of feelings in the air, a lot of busyness. 212-433-9692. Dr. Sheryl here with some advice for us. I want to talk about that busyness because, all of a sudden, this convergence of schedules, and everybody's trying to get everybody back on routine. I'm wondering for maybe some tips about the busyness. I'm not talking just the practical stuff of, "Have a family calendar," but more emotionally, because when it gets busy, everybody's nerves can get frayed. Now we have a nucleus of people who are kind of operating on that frayed edge. What advice for kind of everybody in that orbit?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Yes, I think since it's one week into back-to-school, you might want to do a check-in, right? The check-in is just about, "Hey, how's band practice feeling after school? Oh, and then on Tuesdays and Thursdays, you also go to ballet," or "You also go to lacrosse," whatever you do. Check in about it. Because when we sign up for things, when we decide it's a good idea to volunteer or do an activity, learn a new instrument, it just sounds like fun. That sounds really exciting. It sounds like a good idea at the moment.
This is one of those times where I like to remind parents, "It will trickle down to your kids. Just because you made a decision doesn't mean that you have to always stick to it. Sometimes Plan B is the way we're going to go. Oh, we thought it was going to be okay that you had two activities in one week after school. Actually, maybe it's not going to be." Maybe it's Week 1 and you say, "It felt like a lot this week. We're still settling. Let's give it one more week."
I'm just giving this as an example because I think so many times we feel stuck or committed, or as a parent, we say, "Oh, well, in our house, we always say that if you sign up for something, if we make a commitment, we're going to stick to our commitment." That can be maybe a rule of thumb, but there are usually exceptions to rules. I think this, in our overly scheduled, highly busy world, it's actually great role modeling to say, "Yes, you told your friend that you were going to go over on Sunday and help them with something. It turns out, actually, you have some things to do," and sometimes we cancel. We don't do it probably all the time, but sometimes. Just giving kids the off ramp or the permission to say, "Sometimes I change my mind, sometimes Plan A wasn't the best plan," I think is actually really healthy.
Tiffany Hanssen: Is that what giving each other a break really looks like?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: It does. In common-sense languaging-- We know this. These are facts; these are not opinions. We know that parents are the most stressed generation of parents that have ever been recorded. We know that kids are not only highly stressed, but they're also very lonely. Then maybe you're thinking, "Well then maybe being overly scheduled isn't a bad idea because these kids are lonely." Well, it's not a great idea to put a bunch of kids that are stressed out together and ask them to do an activity. They don't actually tend to bond and connect in those kind of situations. They're in survival mode. We, as adults, and then kids, need to get out of survival.
How do we get to thriving? We have to find the balance. Sometimes you don't know it. Sometimes you have to go above the level to say, "Oh, that was too much." Sometimes you have to go below, "Hey, we're only going to do this this fall." Then this happens all the time in the summer—and I know people are coming off summer—there's going to be half the people listening right now that are going to say, "Yes, we did it again; we over-scheduled our kids." There's going to be another half that say, "You know what? We didn't do enough. These kids were bored. I was going crazy." Sometimes finding that balance of time management is a process; it's not an end goal. I really want parents to hear that. It is a process of trial and error.
Tiffany Hanssen: I do want to touch on this at some point, but I want to talk about bored kids and whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing. We are talking right now specifically about back-to-school because it can be such a hectic time. We're doing a check-in here. How's it going? One week under our belts. Parents, caregivers, how are you feeling? What's bumping for you already? 212-433-9692. We're talking with Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler.
Just sort of broadly here, Dr. Sheryl, when we talk about kids in this 6 to 12 range, tweens, teens, what is, broadly speaking, I know, the role of parents right now in that timeframe?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Such a great, great question. Probably one of my favorite questions. The role of parents starts to become very parallel to the role of kids. When we're talking about, let's say, preteens, those tweens, that 6th, 7th, 8th grader, what their job is is actually different than 9th, 10th, and 11th grader, which then impacts the parents. When we're looking at middle school, the kid is in a process called competency. They are trying to figure out either, "Developmentally, after I'm done with this stage," which is 6 to 12, "I'm either going to feel inferior, like I have low self-worth, low self-esteem, I don't really know what I'm good at," or "I'm going to have this competence. I'm going to have this sense of when there's a problem, I have solutions. When you need me to do something, I am capable, and I can do it." That happens through about, let's say, 6th grade.
The role of a parent at that point is to give them a lot of opportunity to gain competence. That means letting them pick out their own clothes or letting them do a chore that you know, yes, you could probably do the dishes faster, or they load the dishwasher, you go in after them, and you start putting it "the right way." If we don't allow them to try things, fail, make mistakes, try again, then what we're doing is we're robbing them of that opportunity. A parent's role at that point is: give them lots and lots of opportunity to try things. Whether that's an activity, that's a chore, a social aspect, anything like that, that's literally the job of a parent.
Then when they get to be about 13, 14, and up, the role starts to shift. Instead of being clearly the leader, clearly the one who's setting them up for success and setting up playdates and setting up work opportunities, now all of a sudden we're much more of a coach. We're much more shoulder to shoulder, side by side. You're still very important, but just in a different way, because they're working on identity. By now, 13, 14, they should know what they're competent at. They should kind of know what they're not so competent at. Then, they got to figure out, "Who am I?" When they're figuring out who they are, they're pushing against the parent. The parent's role is to say, "I'm not going to take this personally. They're literally doing their job. My job is to be very much a home base for them." Like, "I'm here, but I don't know everything anymore. I'm not calling parents, probably, to solve problems anymore. I might not even be reaching out to teachers." They have to do that.
Our role is to say, "Okay, I'm not going to do that, but someone has to do that, and the 'someone' is my kid." You're guiding them, you're mentoring them, you're supporting them. You're a very strong constant, but you're not leading everything anymore.
Tiffany Hanssen: Okay, Dr. Sheryl, let's bring Maria in Huntington into the conversation. Hi, Maria.
Maria: Hello. Thank you. My question is on behalf of a young girl who is virtually our goddaughter. She's 11. She went into 6th grade this year. [unintelligible 00:16:07] friend has told us that she's had a best friend since she was a baby. This young friend has a goddaughter that she no longer wants to be friends with. Our goddaughter is completely heartbroken, cries about this. Doesn't understand why. I know that, you know, with teenage girls, sometimes this happens.
My friend has reached out to the young girl's mother and asked if they could do anything, and basically said, "They don't have to be best friends anymore," but her daughter shouldn't be a mean girl towards our goddaughter. The other mother was like, "Well, let's just see how it goes." I'm wondering if there's any advice to help our little friend through this phase.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Thanks, Maria. Challenging friendship dynamics.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Oh, yes. What Maria just asked, and even really, the way she put it, is probably the single most common middle school challenge that there is. You hit middle school, and all of a sudden you've been best friends throughout elementary school. Then one person, either they literally say it like, "I don't really think I want to be friends with you anymore," or sometimes it's subtle; sometimes it's like, "I don't want to play with dolls anymore. Playing with dolls is stupid." Or, "That's not really cool anymore. Now I like to do this."
It's really hard to explain to a kid why, what seems like overnight, your friend all of a sudden doesn't want to be your friend. Here's what I do. I really say, "It's a really interesting time because you're all going through something called puberty." Really, you can blame this one on puberty. "Puberty truly does say I should seek out different social experiences. I should try out different interests. Sometimes those interests are going to align, and sometimes they're not."
The girl that's just walking away from the friendship and has decided she's going to be friends with these other girls, and actually she's not even going to just leave her, but she's actually going to be mean to her at times or laugh at her or allow other people to do that. Part of what's happening for her is she's just desperately trying to figure out, "Well, who am I right now?" and "Who are my people? Oh, I have to try on these different roles. Oh, I have to try on the competency of: can I be 'funny' even though that's hurting someone's feelings? Can I be cool? Can I be pretty? Oh, I'm going to start wearing makeup." Things that just were not even an issue a few months ago are an issue.
To your goddaughter, Maria, I'd say, "I know it's really hard to not take this personally. It actually really isn't personal. She's trying to figure out who she is and how she's going to be in middle school, and she's decided she needs to do that without you. I know that's really, really, really sad. Right now, your job is to figure out how to be you without her. You might come back together. You might not. We don't know. We really don't know. She's trying to figure some things out. While she's doing that, you do it, too." Really, that consistent message around: This isn't personal. This isn't about her. She didn't do anything wrong, I think, is really important for her to hear over and over.
Tiffany Hanssen: One of the things that I found myself doing with my kids was making it about me. I would say, for example, "Well, I've had friendships in my life that have come and gone. For various reasons, we changed where we were living. Our jobs changed. Circumstances changed. I had kids; this person didn't like. Friendships can come and go, and it didn't reflect on me, and it doesn't reflect on the person that was my friend." Is there anything for a grown-up to kind of put something back on themselves and say it's normal?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Yes, I love that. I think it's experience sharing. Particularly in middle school, the age of Maria's goddaughter, they're very, very open to that, actively open to it. Saying, "I will never forget when I was in 6th grade. I'll never forget when I was in middle school. I was best friends with-- Then, we started, and then all of a sudden we weren't friends anymore. We used to always play soccer together. Then she stopped playing soccer; she quit the team. Then she started doing a different sport and had different friends. I remember how sad I was." Yes, that's very helpful, even in the teen years.
The thing with the teen years is sometimes they don't give you any verbal acknowledgement that they heard you or that it impacts them. It certainly doesn't help, but it plants a seed of "friends are often for reasons and seasons." That's something that I say. Reasons sometimes are, "We were in the same class together." Seasons are, "We both loved soccer at the same time," but things can change. It's really hard in middle school. It's a hard reality when they realize, "Oh, maybe I've heard this before, but it's actually happening." I think parents' experience sharing can be very, very helpful, especially when they see, "Oh, you look happy now. You have a best friend now." They see. It's giving them some hope.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Dr. Sheryl, we have a text here: "How to handle it when teenagers start pushing boundaries, like going to parties where there might be drinking and drugs. Advice."
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Yes. Let's get right from middle school straight to high school. There's so much. We put this in the category of high-risk behavior. First, you have to decide. I love this question to ask ourselves. Right now, let's say you're looking at your kid. Maybe they're in 10th grade in high school, and you're like, "Whoa, we're at one week in, and already this weekend they went to a party. I know they were drinking," or "I saw texts; everyone's planning on how they were going to drink at this party. How did this happen?"
The first thing you want to say, "Is this a difference in my kid or is this a danger?" Difference or danger. Differences can be, "Now they want to drink. Now they want to date. Now they want to ride in cars with other people. Now they want a later curfew." That's a difference. Some of those things are just a difference that you get to set a boundary around. Some of them are a danger.
"Well, they want to ride in a car with somebody who has had a driver's license less than six months." "They want to sleep over someone's house whose parents, I just found out, we're not going to be home and they were going to be sneaking people in." There becomes a fine line in these teen years. Here's what I'm going to say to the parent that texted that in: You have to become clearer than maybe ever on your boundaries. You have to set them, and you have to maintain them. Means keep them. It's easy to say, "I wouldn't want you to walk in the store past midnight over the weekend or you're going to find yourself sitting at home next week," but if you don't actually follow through with that, they say, "Oh, okay. Their word doesn't really mean anything." Their job, talk about a brain job, is to push, push, and push. This is boundary time. Difference, danger, and boundary would be the guiding light, I think, at this age.
Tiffany Hanssen: We are talking with Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler about back-to-school. It's a hectic time. A lot of stuff going on for kids, not just in terms of activities but, as Dr. Sheryl has been talking about, with their brains, with their friendships, with their friend groups within a family dynamic. We're just doing a check-in. Do you need some advice? Do you have some advice that worked for you? As we check in here on this first week back at school. You are listening to Please Advise. It's a pop-up advice show here at WNYC. You can call us; you can text us. 212-433-9692 on this topic. We'll get back to it with Dr. Sheryl here in just a few minutes. We're going to take a break and be right back.
[music]
Tiffany Hanssen: Welcome back here to Please Advise, the pop-up advice show from WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. Glad you're with us. We are taking a check-in here with parents, caregivers, grown-ups, as we tick off the first week of school. We're off today, but we're doing a check-in. How's it going? By the way, if you're looking for advice, no topic off the table here. I you have advice, love to hear from you as well. 212-433-9692. You can call us; you can text us at that number. We're talking with psychologist Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler. She is the author of The Crucial Years: The Essential Guide to Mental Health and Modern Puberty in Middle Childhood.
Dr. Sheryl, we were talking about friendship here. One of the things that I'm most curious about as kids, tweens, teens navigate these changes in friendships, I wonder what valuable life lessons you think they're taking forward with them.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: There are just so many. If I asked you to think about your childhood, you have a couple of memories. You have some memories from elementary school. Then middle school, oftentimes people have this dread, feeling like they just survived it, how awkward it was. 11 years old is peak age for bullying, so if anybody had an experience with bullying, they're going to remember that probably as a middle school issue. Then you have high school.
High school are incredibly formative years because those are your identity years. They are the "Who am I? Who are my people? How do I express myself?" I think when we look at our kids' childhood, all of it is important. Every stage has a different purpose; every stage has a different meaning. Then there's this cumulative effect. I'll focus right now on the emerging adult or young adult. That would be, let's say, 18 to 24. When we look at that age group right now, they are potentially in college, or they're young professionals. They are very mentally savvy. They care a ton about their well-being. They care a ton about work-life balance. Also, they just got knocked down by teenagers as being the loneliest generation, but they're pretty lonely as well.
The cumulative effect of today's young emerging adults, as they move forward, is they grew up with social media, they grew up with technology, and they grew up with these ways that actually are not natural for us in how we connect with others. We connect with others, believe it or not, through a lot of friction. Those friendships that you had to figure out, you had to kind of be like, "We had an argument, we figured this out, we talked it through," are now being relegated to online conversations, or simply just knocking somebody out of a group chat, or not spending as much time in person. Now we have a generation that's really relying on AI. Those are frictionless relationships.
When we think about it, and you think about, "What am I learning now to go into the future?" If you're raising somebody who's in this stage, you have to remember that friction and conflict and conflict resolution and frustration and frustration tolerance are really what not only make us human, but help us thrive. Help us figure out the "Who am I?" and "Where are my people?"
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. We're talking with Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler. It's back-to-school time. What do you need help with? What are you looking for advice on? Dr. Sheryl? We have Corinne in Staten Island. Hi, Corinne.
Corinne: Hi. How are you doing?
Tiffany Hanssen: Doing good. Welcome, welcome.
Corinne: Hello.
Tiffany Hanssen: Hello. Can you hear us? Do you have a question?
Corinne: I don't have a question, but I more so have advice.
Tiffany Hanssen: Great. Let's hear it.
Corinne: I was just thinking, because I am a teacher, and one of the biggest things that I try to tell my students is just to be honest with your teachers and communicate. I know I won't get mad or upset with a student if they are like, "Hey, I really can't submit my homework by this date because I have XYZ going on." As long as they're honest and upfront with me, I get it. Everyone has lives. Everyone's doing things. That's totally fine.
Even with the AI thing, if I'm looking at a student's work and I approach a student, I'm like, "Hey, I was reading over your paper," and if they're upfront and honest with me, I'm like, "Okay, great, we can learn from this. Let's learn how to use it properly," whatever the case may be. "I won't get mad at you because you admitted it up front." My biggest thing is, "Be honest and communicate."
Tiffany Hanssen: Be honest and communicate. Thanks for that, Corinne. Appreciate that advice. Dr. Sheryl, the other thing that I was picking up there is teachers are a resource for kids, teens, tweens, all of them.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Absolutely.
Tiffany Hanssen: How do you advise kids who might be reluctant to go to somebody like Corinne and tell the truth about what's really going on?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Well, I can tell you that I can relate to this personally. I have three teens myself. I am constantly saying to them, "Advocate for yourself, communicate with your teacher. Just tell them. Just literally tell them the truth. It's better than submitting work that you know you didn't really do or better than just accepting a zero." I will say there are some personalities of kids who have no problem going up to an adult of any sort, a teacher, a coach, and saying, "Hey, coach," "Hey, teacher," and then communicating what they need. My experience is that more often than not, there is this hesitancy, there's this feeling of shame, or there's a feeling of anxiety that, "Oh, I don't even know how I would say it."
I think something that a parent can do at home is encourage that within their relationship. What Corinne just said, I think many, many parents have said to their own kids, "Just be honest with me. Tell me, did you eat the cookie out of the cookie jar? You're not going to get in trouble," or "You're going to get into less trouble than if I find out that you were lying and I find the evidence that you ate the cookie, but you didn't tell me." We say that to our kids, and I think we have to really reinforce that and then eventually start applying it outside of our home to other adult relationships. It's probably one of the best pieces of advice you can give a middle schooler, a high schooler, and even someone going into college.
Tiffany Hanssen: I hear a little bit in there about boundaries, which you said is, if not the biggest, one of the biggest responsibilities of parents, caregivers in those teen years. We got a texter here who says: "Any advice on how to recover from letting the ball drop on holding boundaries?" A lot of people probably can relate to that. "It's been difficult," this texter says, "with the third and the youngest now 17."
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: First, you are definitely not alone. I think that whether it's your third or it's your first, parents have a really hard time maintaining boundaries. Especially when it gets to the teen years, where they become extremely good at arguing; they become very good at pushing the boundaries, and you get tired. Some parents are like, "You know what? They wore me down. They just wore me down. I just gave in. I said, fine, I don't care, whatever, take the car." Or, "Yes, you can stay the night," whatever it is.
I love to say this, and I said it earlier, and I was probably talking about a "younger kid" advice, but it's the same thing. We don't have to stick to whatever we originally said. That doesn't make you an inconsistent parent. Meaning you can say—today's Monday—"Over the weekend, you kept pushing me on that curfew. You exhausted me. It was 11:00 at night when you were arguing with me. I'm tired; I want to go to bed, and I gave in. That's bad on me. I'm going to accept that. I know you like the outcome of it, but I didn't love the outcome of it. I've been thinking about it. It's your job to push boundaries. Not even going to be upset about it. That's your job. You know what? It's my job to maintain them and to keep them. We're going to do a redo." I want every parent listening to hear that.
Use your words. Basically, a real psychological term for that is: "We tear, and we repair." We make mistakes. We don't hold a boundary. It happens. It's going to happen for the rest of your life. The key part is the second part, which is, "And then we repair, or we reset." For the parent who just texted in with the 17-year-old, you say, "You know, you're the third. You're the baby of the family. We're getting older. I'm tired--" whatever the reason was. "Sometimes I do give in more. I really don't want to do that any longer. I'm not going to do that any longer."
Tiffany Hanssen: "That's on me."
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: "That's on me. I'm not going to even be that mad at you." Yes, you can be upset with your kid to say, "Hey, I know it's your job to push boundaries. I also know you've got to know when enough is enough, too. Let's both work on this. I'm going to work on being better on my part. You can make a debate or one argument to me, and then I'm going to tell you, 'Okay, I've heard you. Let me repeat back to you what I heard. Is this right?'" They're going to say yes. "Okay, great. I heard that, and the answer's still no."
Tiffany Hanssen: We are talking back-to-school. 212-433-9692. Busy, hectic first week under our belts. What would you like a little advice on? Any advice to give? We are talking with Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler. Dr. Sheryl, I will note that we can also hear not just from parents, caregivers, we can also hear from kids. To that point, we have a text here. "Hi, my name is Elishema." I really hope I'm saying that right. Elishema. "I'm in the 4th grade. My first week at school was great." Big smiley face.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Yes.
Tiffany Hanssen: "We're starting off with the usual stuff. Puberty, crushes, trying to be cool, all of it. In my school, everybody wants to be cool, because then you'll be popular. I have learned to be yourself and focus on you."
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Oh, can Elishama give us advice? How? How does she do that?
Tiffany Hanssen: I know. She should have been our guest.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Yes.
Tiffany Hanssen: We could have brought her in. Love that. Okay, another good texter here. "Hi, Doctor. Any advice for families navigating a switch from private to public schools or vice versa? The difference in resources, overall, culture shock has been jarring." Culture shock, you mentioned a little bit earlier, just in terms of going from junior high into high school, but culture shock can manifest in different ways. Not just ages of the kids involved, but also: "Is it a sports school? Is it--" How do you navigate those culture changes?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: That's a really great question. Here's what I want to say. I definitely have a lot of experience with this because depending on where you live, sometimes there's a lot of private school options and then there's public school options. I will tell you, for any family who's been in any one setting, there's always the curiosity about the other. That's number one. The grass is not always greener; sometimes it's just a different shade of green. That's really what I've noticed a lot.
There's going to be differences. Let's just say if your kid is now in a school setting that is more—I'm going to put it that way—more of everything. Maybe there's more kids. It's a larger school. "Oh, we just went from a small school to a large school." There's more of everything. It really does give your kid an opportunity to persevere and figure out resilience and be adaptable, flexible, which is one of the top skills we need. Cognitive flexibility and just flexibility.
The different examples, from private to public. Well, I know what that means. That's AKA for they're being exposed to so much more in this probably larger, very public, probably more diverse school. That's what that question probably really means. I know we think we want to protect our kids, but I just want them to know that kids are really open. They're open to figuring out, "Okay, where do I belong? Oh, that's a difference. Oh, over there might be danger. I need to figure that out for myself." They've got the skills. Because it exists now in their school setting, when they come home, talk about them. "Hey, what did you notice? Hey, what are some differences? What are some differences you really like and you appreciate? What are you learning?" Be very curious about it. That's what really, I think, makes a kid thrive.
Tiffany Hanssen: Just to follow up, Dr. Sheryl, Elishama said we said her name properly, so that's good.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Oh, well, I'm so glad. Elishama, you have a beautiful name.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, exactly.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: I'm so glad you texted us. Always be yourself. I'm so happy for her.
Tiffany Hanssen: Let's bring Tara and Merrick into the conversation. Hi Tara, welcome.
Tara: Hi there. Thank you. Again, my name is Tara. I have a 17-year-old. He'll be 17 tomorrow. A new driver, a senior in high school. He's a wonderful kid. He's the only child so he's very independent, really strong-willed and minded. I just am curious to see how much stamina I have with all of the pushback when I'm setting boundaries. He's a new driver. Deadlines with college, schoolwork, all of this stuff. He pushes back often and argues. He has good arguments sometimes, and I hear him out. I am worried about my stamina and trying to hold to the boundaries that we're setting with this new era that we're stepping into, where he really is on the line of adulthood.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Dr. Sheryl.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Oh, yes. Tara, we could talk for the whole rest of the time, but here's what I'm going to say to you. If you're curious about your stamina, probably one of the biggest tips I can give you is, "Be proactive." You already know what the big stress points are going to be. You don't know, maybe all the little tiny nuances within those, like driving. You know there's going to be an issue of, like, I don't know if you have Life360. Are you going to monitor him? Are you going to follow the speeding? If he gets a ticket, what are you going to do? There's a lot of things we can predict. There's a lot. Then there's little nuances you won't.
The biggest thing you could do—I know his birthday is tomorrow. Happy Birthday—if he's getting his driver's license, create a contract. You could probably find sample ones online and put all those little details in there. If they miss curfew, boom, here's what happens. If they do this, this is what happens, because it's kind of the way the law works. Even the law has gray in it, but it's pretty much kind of a black and white. If you speed and a police officer finds that, you're probably going to get a ticket. You really want to say, "Listen, I got to hold up all my reserves for the things I didn't see coming." So much of having a 17-year-old, a senior in high school, you see coming. You've got deadlines, right?
There's deadlines. October 1st is a big college deadline. Then it kind of goes to November 1st, December 1st, flat out. "I want to see a spreadsheet, bud. I want to see what you're doing. I want to see the plan. If you don't make these goals," and then whatever it's going to be. "It's sad you're going to have to stay in on Saturday instead of going out and you're going to have to do that on a Saturday night."
What I'm trying to say is, I'd say, a vast majority, honestly, 80% probably a senior year is quite predictable, so be proactive. Create contracts, put things in writing. It just helps. It makes things black and white, and it reduces all of that negotiation. If he wants to negotiate, he can do it in the process of creating the contract versus after, when it's harder.
Tiffany Hanssen: Dr. Sheryl, we have a couple more calls here I want to get to. We are talking back-to-school. This is Please Advise. It's a pop-up advice show here at WNYC. If you're looking for advice, maybe you have some advice to share here, as we are now going into the second week of school for a lot of kids. You can call us; you can text us. 212-433-9692. We're going to get back to more of your calls in just a minute. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. Glad you're with us. Stick around.
[music]
Tiffany Hanssen: You're listening to Please Advise. It's a pop-up advice show here at WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. Thanks so much for spending part of your afternoon with us. We are talking back-to-school. Whether you're looking for advice or whether you have some advice to give: 212-433-9692. You can call us; you can text us. We're talking with Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler. Dr. Sheryl, we got a text here. Says, "As a junior high student, I did terrible on a home economics test. I got a D because I didn't sleep the night before when Robert F. Kennedy Senior, was shot and killed campaigning in California. I did have the courage to speak up to my teacher about it, and I did ask for a chance for a retake on the test. So I am encouraging kids to stand up for themselves. It's important." More of the message of standing up for yourself. I love it.
Let's bring Glenn. Glenn's in New Jersey. Hi, Glenn. You want to join the conversation?
Glenn: Yes. Thank you very much for taking my call. As a psychologist who works with trauma, I'm keenly aware of the number of children who experience adverse childhood experiences and how it can impact them in school in terms of their mental health, depression, anxiety, risky behaviors, and also later on in life in physical health. From my understanding, 16% of adults have experienced four or more childhood adverse experiences. It really speaks to how we can work with parents to prevent these ACEs. I was wondering if you could comment on that, please.
Tiffany Hanssen: Dr. Sheryl.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Absolutely. What he's really referring to these adverse childhood experiences, and we call it an ACEs score, is we've looked at, really, what are the things that we, as parents, experienced as kids. That can be a divorce, incarceration of a parent, homelessness, domestic violence--
Tiffany Hanssen: This is what we're bringing to the table.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: What we're bringing to the table. If we don't take a look at what we've brought to the table, what we tend to do is we repeat patterns. There's a term that says, "When we stress, we regress." That means you've been doing good, you haven't yelled at your kids, and then something happens and you just lost it. You yelled at them. Well, what happens to the parent, there's another process that we can call it. If the parent is aware, "Oh, I know what the trigger was. My kid did XYZ that triggered me, and I just yelled," and, "Oh, man, I felt terrible." They'll feel shame. "I felt terrible. I heard my parents' voice in my head when I did that. I remember what it felt like for me when I was yelled at."
What happens is, a lot of times parents sit in shame. What we can do, as opposed to just sitting in that is there's a process called reparenting. Reparenting says, "I'm going to take a real look at the things that happened in my childhood, and I am going to work on that." That could be professionally with somebody. That could be by reading, journaling, could be talking to a sibling and saying, "Hey, look at us, we're in our 40s. We've never talked a day about how Dad came home drunk nearly every night. We didn't really talk about that. How do you think it impacts you and your parenting?" That can be a very healing, therapeutic conversation.
You might have a childhood best friend you stay in touch with, and you say, "Gosh, what do you think was going on? That was scary sometimes in my house, huh?" However we do that in the reparenting part is really trying to give to ourselves what we didn't get so that we can give that to our kids when they need it.
There's also another phrase that says, "We can't give to our kids what we don't have." If we didn't get it and then we don't have it, we can't give it to them. That unconditional positive regard or a conversation versus a screaming match, that can be really hard when you haven't paid attention. I really love this topic. I'm glad he brought it up. Every single one of us has a story. Every single one of us has baggage. Every single one of us has something that happened in our childhoods. We don't tend to get out of our childhoods without something significant happening: a loss, drug, alcohol abuse, moving, a divorce. Those are things that you just want to make sure you've processed.
Tiffany Hanssen: Erin in Long Beach. Hi, Erin, you have a question.
Erin: Hi, how are you?
Tiffany Hanssen: Good.
Erin: I do. Thank you. I wanted to piggyback off of what the other gentleman was just saying. Every generation feels this huge gap between theirs and their children. I'm Gen X. I have an 18-year-old daughter and I have a 16-year-old daughter. We've primarily kept them from having cell phones up until this past summer. My question is, I guess, where's the hope? Because with mental health in decline, with social media, it's almost like there's no guardrails whatsoever. As a parent who grew up with a relatively normal childhood, meaning that we didn't have all these devices and screen time, there's plummeting attention spans, there's all kinds of things that we did not have to deal with or combat when we were kids. We are trying to help our kids navigate this landscape that is so foreign to us. It feels really hopeless.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Okay. Thank you, Erin. Appreciate that. Thanks for being vulnerable about that, because I think maybe the best way to tackle this, Dr. Sheryl, is to say, how do you find hope?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Yes. That's a great question. I think there are reasons to be hopeful. One of them is, I said this actually in the very beginning, this is a generation of kids. This Gen Z is a generation of kids who really value their mental health. They value their well-being. They value even their physical health and activity. They're aware of the benefits of nature, sunshine, and movement of their bodies. That's something we probably didn't really have and fully appreciate. That's something they really, really have.
Here's the other thing. I think that is we look at the backlash of this generation of kids against AI, that shows us hope. They care about the environment, they care about protecting their own cognitive thoughts, their own creative processes, and they care about jobs. They're saying, "I don't want AI. I don't want that to take jobs away. I want to do that job. I didn't go to school so that some AI bot could take it away." I think that there's a level of activism. Social media has many, many, many downfalls and a lot of things that concern us greatly, and it also gives people a platform for good. There can be the opportunity to say, "Hey, I've got this following," however big or small it is, and, "We all care about--" whatever it is you care about.
There are positives. We know that some marginalized groups, we know that the LGBTQ community does find supportive community in social media, and therefore they get together and rally together. I think for all the things that we can be concerned about, there really is another side of that that gives us hope.
Tiffany Hanssen: I think hope is a great place to leave it for today, Dr. Sheryl. We really, really appreciate the time. We've been talking about back-to-school, getting advice, giving advice. We've been talking with Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler. She is the author of The Crucial Years: The Essential Guide to Mental Health and Modern Puberty in Middle Childhood, Ages 6 to 12. Dr. Sheryl, thank you so much for your time. We absolutely appreciate it. Leaving on a hope is good, right?
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: Thank you so much for having me.
Tiffany Hanssen: Leaving it on hope is good.
Dr. Sheryl Gonzalez Ziegler: I love ending on hope. It's the only place to be, I think.
Tiffany Hanssen: Thank you so much. Folks, you are listening to Please Advise. It's a pop-up advice show here at WNYC. We're doing this Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday during the one o'clock hour. What's up for tomorrow, you wonder? Well, we've brought in, or we will bring in, a veterinarian. Dr. Sabrina Geer will join us. Questions about that turtle, that bird, that cat, that goldendoodle, whatever it is. We've got a veterinarian coming in studio tomorrow to answer your questions.
[music]
Maybe you've got some advice for other pet owners how to be a good pet owner here in New York City. Join us tomorrow. If you have some questions you want to submit via our website: wnyc.org/advice. You can also give us some tips there for future shows that you would like to hear us do. Again, that's wnyc.org/advice. We'll be back tomorrow with a veterinarian, all things animals tomorrow. It's Please Advise here on WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. We'll talk to you then.
[music]
Copyright © 2026 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.
New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.