On today's episode of WNYC's new popup advice show, Tiffany Hanssen leads a conversation about advice itself, alongside comedian Josh Gondelman and Washington Post advice columnist Carolyn Hax. Listeners share the advice that has stuck with them throughout their lives, and give tips on the right (and wrong) ways to give it.
Note: You are listening to the podcast version of a live radio show. The call-in number only works between 1 and 2 PM Eastern, while the show is live.
If you'd like to submit questions or topic suggestions outside of the live show, please use the form on our showpage at wnyc.org/advise
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Tiffany Hanssen: Welcome to Please Advise, a pop-up advice show from WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. During this hour, on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays, we'll talk with experts, authors, advocates, and others to get their advice on all sorts of topics, from advice on how to be a good colleague at work to relationship advice and financial tips, but what we're really excited about is having you in this conversation. Whether you're looking for advice or you have some to give, you are the biggest part of every show.
Let's get started with today's question, which is, not surprisingly, for an advice show, about advice. Here it is. What is the most consequential piece of advice you've ever got? Could have changed your life for the better, the worse, could have come from a loved one, a complete stranger. Any way you have it, it struck with you. It stayed with you. Did somebody give you advice on a colicky baby or a relationship breakup, or is there career advice that really changed your path? You can call us, you can text us, 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. Of course, this is our inaugural show, so going forward--
Also, if you have some topics or subjects you'd like us to take up on this show, you can call us and text us with those as well. Nothing off the table, by the way: money, relationships, family, sex, death, grief. What would you like some advice on? You can just let us know. Call us. Text us 212-433-9692. 212-433-9692.
Later this hour, we're going to talk with Carolyn Hax, who's the advice columnist for The Washington Post, who will hopefully give us some advice on doing an advice show, but for right now, we're going to welcome our first guest to Please Advise, writer and comedian Josh Gondelman. You may know him from his appearances on Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!. Maybe you've heard him on our air with Alison Stewart on All of It, giving pep talks. Today, he joins us to talk about advice. Hi, Josh.
Josh Gondelman: Hello, Tiffany. Thank you for having me.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Hey, inaugural guest, inaugural show. No pressure, buddy.
Josh Gondelman: I feel no pressure. Nobody has done it better than I have yet.
Tiffany Hanssen: Right.
Josh Gondelman: Yes.
Tiffany Hanssen: Hey, that's a good point.
Josh Gondelman: It's nice to get to set the levels.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, right? All right, so for that first question that I threw out here, what is the most consequential piece of advice you've ever received? Listeners were looking for that from you. 212-433-9692. Josh, I'm going to put it to you too, the most consequential piece of advice you ever received.
Josh Gondelman: This is something that I come back to a lot. I was in a position where I was going back and forth over email with someone years and years ago, this is probably 15, 17 years ago, and I was trying to figure out how to resolve this issue. My friend Tony V, who's a great comedian and actor, said to me, he goes, "Get him on the phone."
Tiffany Hanssen: Interesting.
Josh Gondelman: I think, "Get him on the phone" has always stuck with me as not always a telephone thing, but especially in an era where so many people are using AI to write their emails, and they're not even reading the emails they're sending you, the most human-to-human contact you can do, and it doesn't have to be, "Let's meet about this for an hour." It's just, "Hey, do you have five minutes to just hash this out?" I think the more humanity you can put even into a business question or request, the better off you are and the more likely you're to be treated as a human and to treat the other person like a real person.
Tiffany Hanssen: I have some advice that I received that's similar, which is I was going back and forth and emailing someone about an issue. I don't remember if it was like a customer service issue or something, but similar to that. They said, "Just go there." If you're standing at the desk, they can't say no to you. They can't ignore whatever issue it was. I think that it's in both of our cases a bit of advice that said, "Make a connection."
Josh Gondelman: "Make a connection."
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. I will say, part of the reason we wanted to hear is because we're kind of setting the table for this show. When I think about what we're doing here, we're serious, first of all, dear listeners, when we say you are the biggest part of this conversation, because you are. We're creating a connection here. We're creating a community here. We know we have it in WNYC, but we're taking some space now out of the day to really create community. It's interesting, I think, that both of us had that first bit of advice that popped to our mind was something about connection.
What was it that you think made it good? Not the advice itself that was good, but was it the person it came from? Was it the moment in your life when you got it? What was it that made it?
Josh Gondelman: Oh, that's such a good question. The person it came from is really helpful, right? I always think advice is the most helpful when it carries the gravitas of someone who has been there before or someone who can at least deeply empathize with the position you're in and is taking it seriously. That helped. Tony was somebody and is somebody that I looked up to forever, and so hearing his advice, I went, "You know what? This communication medium is new," but the classics of, "Get him on the phone," are always helpful, that kind of strategy.
I think it did come at a moment in my life where I was sending a lot of emails. I was kind of coming in cold to a lot of situations. This was for a booking for a stand-up gig. I think the more you can make a connection, the better it is. I was at a time in my life where I was like remote from a lot of-- I was doing bookings all over the country and just realizing, "Oh, on the other end of this request is a human being that has to live the whole rest of their day," and it was very helpful to put that into context.
Tiffany Hanssen: You are listening to Please Advise. It's the new pop-up advice show here from WNYC. We're talking with Josh Gondelman, and we're just talking for this first show about advice. We did throw a question out there, what's the most consequential piece of advice you ever got? Of course, we want to hear from you. 212-433-9692. You can call us, you can text us at that number. Josh, we have some great texts coming in. I want to read us a couple.
"The most consequential piece of advice I had was to have more children after my first child was born with cerebral palsy. I went on to have three more children. It was the best decision I ever made. I still thank the woman Jeanette for giving me the advice."
Josh Gondelman: Wow.
Tiffany Hanssen: I love that.
Josh Gondelman: That's really beautiful.
Tiffany Hanssen: That's beautiful.
Josh Gondelman: Very consequential.
Tiffany Hanssen: Very consequential to my point here. Great text here. "The best therapist I ever had told me to always check if my basic needs are met: hunger, thirst, sleep, social needs, et cetera, if I'm feeling low, because sometimes you just need a nap or a glass of water to change your day and your mood." Great advice. Sometimes it does just come back to what they tell you in kindergarten, "Let's all just have a snack."
"When I was 22 years old back in 1978, and my Upper West Side building was going co-op, I saw a woman in the elevator who asked me if I was going to buy my apartment. I said, 'No, I'm only 22,' and she said, 'You ought to think about it. A woman living alone should have an investment.'" Oh, look, there's my phone. Should have an investment. "It cost me $11,280, and I live here 50 years later, and my apartment is worth over a million dollars."
Josh Gondelman: Wow.
Tiffany Hanssen: Well, there's a good bit of financial advice.
Josh Gondelman: Buy an apartment 30 to 40 years ago. Is that what it was? I missed the day. That's the thing of acting now, right?
Tiffany Hanssen: Right.
Josh Gondelman: Acting decisively now.
Tiffany Hanssen: You are listening to Please Advise. It's a pop-up advice show from WNYC. It's new. We're doing this Monday, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays. Today we're talking with Josh Gondelman. We're talking about advice. You can call us, you can text us. 212-433-9692. Just to throw it out there, the most consequential piece of advice you ever got. Josh, we talked about some good advice. What makes bad advice?
Josh Gondelman: I think bad advice that I often hear feels like the person is giving themself advice where it's like they're not taking into consideration the circumstances of the person asking them for advice, and they are going like, "Here's what I would say to me, the person who I'm always kind of advising." If someone says, "What should I do about I can't make it to my sister's wedding because I had an emergency work circumstance come up," or whatever, and this person goes, "Well, I have a bad relationship with my sister, so it doesn't even matter," and so they give advice as-- you know how everyone hates their sister?
Tiffany Hanssen: Right.
Josh Gondelman: And so you just get the wrong point of view on it.
Tiffany Hanssen: I think that what you're getting at, though, is like when-- and I want to talk a little bit more about this in a while, but the difference between getting and receiving advice. We're wearing different hats, but I think when you're giving advice, maybe the advice then is like, "Put your hat on that says 'I'm in the shoes of the other person.'"
Josh Gondelman: Yes, I think so.
Tiffany Hanssen: Great. We have some more texts here coming in. "I've had a chronic problem with depression. A while back, a worker who came to my apartment to clean me heard about my depression. She volunteered very politely, 'Why don't you call it the depression?' That single change of words has consistently improved my mood."
Josh Gondelman: Wow.
Tiffany Hanssen: I think small things can make a difference, [unintelligible 00:10:13]. I think we see that a lot with people giving advice. One small smile, something can change your day, right? I don't know if a small piece of advice that someone gave you pops out.
Josh Gondelman: Yes. When I was going to college, my dad, who I think had a very unpleasant time in college, sat me down as I was getting ready to leave, and he said, "You're leaving? I had a bad time at college. I don't have a ton of great advice to give, but here's something I need you to know. Don't bring dirty clothes with you, because then you've got to do laundry on day one, and you're out of quarters. You've already set yourself behind." Then he handed me an orange pill bottle with a childproof lid full of quarters and then stood up and walked away. It's so memorable to me, and with such a sweet, small moment, a very specific thing-
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, but simple.
Josh Gondelman: -but then it applies broadly, right, where you go, "Oh, you don't want to show up a place unprepared for the circumstances you're walking into." The metaphor for that is very literal of like, "Don't bring dirty laundry to college."
Tiffany Hanssen: Right? Speaking of simple advice, we got a text here that says, "My dad said, 'Don't live in the same city as your in-laws.'" I don't know. It seems like pretty good, simple advice, if you ask me. "Best advice I ever received-" another texter here says "-is in connection with grieving for my late husband who died three years ago, Dr. Alan Wolfelt, a grief counselor in Colorado, teaches that grieving is active work and requires our attention and that time alone isn't enough."
Josh Gondelman: Wow.
Tiffany Hanssen: I know. The thing I think that is going to be really wonderful about the show, and I alluded to it a little bit here in the beginning, was that the no topic is off limits here because I think the number of areas that we venture into when we're seeking advice is broad, right? It's, "Hey, should I wear this shirt?" to this person who needs help grieving their husband.
I think we really run the gamut when we're talking about topics. Listeners, by the way, we are still looking for topics. If you have ideas, you can always call, text us, 212-433-9692, and give us your idea for a show idea. By the way, we also have a website now, too, Josh. wnyc.org/advice. If you're at your computer, you're at work, and you don't want anybody to hear you, or whatever, you don't want to be seen on your phone, you can always email us. Not email. There's a phone.
Josh Gondelman: Very discreet.
Tiffany Hanssen: Very, very discreet. Here's some other nice, simple advice. "Best advice I ever got was don't give unsolicited advice." I want to talk to you about that, Josh, because I think there's something to that that I've-- Here's some advice a texter says that, "I've never gotten out of my head. Do something nice for someone and then tell no one about it." That's like that pay it-- do you remember that whole pay it forward?
Josh Gondelman: I do.
Tiffany Hanssen: It feels like that, kind of.
Josh Gondelman: Yes, right, about doing something for someone else, being for them and for your own heart, but not to broadcast.
Tiffany Hanssen: Right. Listeners, we are still looking for some calls. We'd love to hear from you. 212-433-9692. The question today is what is the most consequential piece of advice you ever got? I know we've got a lot here, Josh, that are for the better. I have to believe there's some people who got advice for whom it was very consequential for them in the way that it was the most horrible thing that someone could have told them. Whether it was good or bad, doesn't matter who it came from, we'd love to hear what is the most consequential piece of advice you ever received. 212-433-9692. You can call us. You can text us at that number.
I think for bad advice, and, Josh, you alluded to this a little bit. Advice that comes with an agenda, I think is bad, right? If I'm fully invested in Josh dropping his career as a comedian and becoming a candle maker, I'm going to--
Josh Gondelman: I am listening.
Tiffany Hanssen: Okay, good. I'm going to give you advice that I think will tilt you toward that, right? Like, "Hey, Tiff, should I take this gig at the whatever place?"
Josh Gondelman: How much wax do they have there?
Tiffany Hanssen: I don't know. I've seen your candles lately. They're pretty good. Also, advice that is passive-aggressive or weirdly diminishes the person asking. I think passive-aggressive really kind of does that, right? We have a great text here that says, "I think sometimes hearing advice, whether good or bad, whether you agree or not, helps you think through what the problem actually is. That's the benefit of the advice, is someone else's perspective."
Josh Gondelman: Yes. It gives you something else to chew on even if you don't agree with it, because it gives you a new perspective. You hear the advice that maybe isn't the right move for you, and it makes you think about, "Why am I pulling away from that?" or "Why doesn't this sound right?" and it helps you clarify your own position.
Tiffany Hanssen: Texter says, "I became a new mom last year. Something that was shared with me was, 'Take a breath. It's not that serious.' I found it to be incredibly helpful because everything on the Internet, all social, all parenting things, make such a big deal out of sleep, feeding, milestones. It's so helpful to just remember that at the end of the day, none of it is that serious."
I was going to say that one of the-- it wasn't really that parenting advice that I got, but something that really stuck with me when I was struggling when my boys were little, and it was the whole dilemma about sleep. This texter mentioned sleep, too, which is there's all kinds of expectations around sleep. A friend of mine just said, "Nobody's going to college sleeping in their mom's bed." I was like, "Oh, my gosh." To this texter's point. It just took the pressure valve off, like, "Oh, okay. If we all fall asleep in a big puppy pile, it doesn't really matter."
Josh Gondelman: It's not the end of the world.
Tiffany Hanssen: It's not the end of the world. I wanted to shift a little bit and talk about receiving advice. How we receive welcome advice versus receiving unwelcome advice. If someone is giving you unwelcome advice-- let's pretend for now that you've asked them for it, and all of a sudden it turns, and it becomes very unwelcome. Do you just shut them down?
Josh Gondelman: Well, it depends if it's somebody whose perspective I like and trust. Like if I've solicited some advice and they start going off in a direction I don't want, I think defining the parameters. If I go, "Hey, I'm trying to figure out a place to go on vacation. It's not in a different time zone, et cetera," and they go, "Oh, you know what's actually great is you should go out to Banff in Canada." I go, "Oh, okay, that sounds great. I'm going to put a pin in that for later, but these parameters are really what I'm trying to keep." You know what I mean?
I think redirecting can help if it's someone you like and trust and you know has your best interest at heart. It's different when someone just goes, "Hey, I've got a thought for you," and you're like, "I would prefer not to hear it."
Tiffany Hanssen: You started that with you should. You should go to Banff, right?
Josh Gondelman: Yes.
Tiffany Hanssen: I was going to ask you about shoulds because I think a lot of unwelcome advice starts with you should.
Josh Gondelman: "You know what you should do?"
Tiffany Hanssen: As someone who's been in therapy, the therapist will tell you that you shouldn't should yourself.
Josh Gondelman: Sure.
Tiffany Hanssen: It's like you get stuck in a feedback.
Josh Gondelman: "I should loop."
Tiffany Hanssen: "I should loop." You shouldn't should yourself. "I should be doing this. I should be feeling this way. I should be doing that." I think that some of the advice that we get that starts with should, often for people, sets off an immediate alarm.
Josh Gondelman: I think you're right. Part of it is even just a little defiant and like, "Don't tell me how to live my life. Don't tell me to go on vacation. Don't tell me what kind of couch is good." "Oh, you should get this one." "Okay, I'm going to get the other couch." You know what I mean? It's like I'm, if you can tell from this, sometimes a bad advice recipient.
Tiffany Hanssen: Right. All right, Josh, I think I'm going to just say again, you are listening, by the way, to a new pop-up advice show here at WNYC. It's called Please Advise. It's happening Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays now, during this hour. Our first guest, this voice you've been hearing, is Josh Gondelman. Listeners, we have so many wonderful texts coming in, but we'd love to have someone call. If it's a bit of parenting advice that was consequential to you, was it career advice. Josh, I'll let you know tomorrow. We're talking with Roxane Gay about workplace advice.
Josh Gondelman: Oh, awesome.
Tiffany Hanssen: She's going to put her workplace advice hat back on. Is it advice you got about dealing with your in-laws? We had a texter who said the best advice they got was "Don't live in the same city with your in-laws." Is it something to do with the way you are handling an older parent? Callers, we would love to hear some voices from our community here on this because an advice show, whether it's-- and by the way, it can be if you have advice to give or if you're soliciting advice from Josh, you could probably-- you have some advice to give, don't you?
Josh Gondelman: Oh, yes, I'm full of it. People tell me all the time that I'm full of it.
Tiffany Hanssen: I love it. All right, 212-433-9692. Yes, you can call us at that number, you can text us at that number, but we'd love to hear from some of you. Advice on advice. We're launching this advice show. We're going to be doing this Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays during this one o'clock hour. Today, we're talking with Josh Gondelman. In a little bit, we're going to bring in Carolyn Hax, who is the advice columnist for the Washington Post. We're going to get some advice from her about advice. This show works when you join us because advice is best when we seek it from those around us, and we have a community of people here at WNYC. We know New Yorkers love to give advice.
Josh, we see it in our daily life. We're walking down the subway platform, and somebody's like, "You shouldn't go that way." Speaking of should, "Don't go that way. That door doesn't work," or "Don't go in the first car. Always go in the last car," whatever it is. I'm going to start a debate now about which car is the best in the subway. Anyway, New Yorkers love advice. We'd love to hear from you. 212-433-9692. Call us, text us. We got a text. "My stepdad advised me not to join a sorority in college, and I joined a rugby club instead. Very different path, friends. It helped me drop my perfectionism and lean into who I became." That feels like a. "Hey, thanks," dad.
Josh Gondelman: Yes, that's great. I was worried that this was going to be bad advice. I joined the rugby team, arms and leg popped off like Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots, Game 1. I'm very glad it took the direction that it did.
Tiffany Hanssen: Another texter says, "Small piece of advice that my grandfather gave me is if you're going to complain about the weather, you'd better be prepared to do something about it. Of course this sounds silly on the surface, but how much time is wasted complaining about something you can't do anything about? When it's hot and humid, I just adjust my wardrobe, and I think about how cold it will be in the winter, and I do the same thing." I love how you can extrapolate advice out to other areas of your life. Like you said, Josh, with the quarters your dad gave you. It goes to like don't go in someplace unprepared.
Josh Gondelman: My dad is truly a fount of advice that is both specific--
Tiffany Hanssen: Well, he should call.
Josh Gondelman: We could get him on the horn. That is true but also a metaphor. My dad, before he retired, was a glazer. He installed glass and aluminum storefronts, big windows. He would always give me construction wisdom, so I got a lot of, "Measure twice, cut once," which is like another one of those that is so specific to know. Literally, it means measure twice so that you don't have to keep cutting because you've double-checked your work. It also is a metaphor for, "Every time before you leave the house, make sure you've looked at the directions twice so you know which way you're going." It is like he's truly a man who speaks in borderline riddles.
Tiffany Hanssen: Okay, Josh, here. I have a fun fact to share.
Josh Gondelman: Hit me.
Tiffany Hanssen: You know how I've been saying we'd love to hear from people calling us? Apparently, people are calling us, and they're getting our voicemail. Listeners, we're working on it. We're going to get that resolved. We do want to hear from you. If you get voicemail, please come back because Josh and I absolutely want to talk to you. We're going to bring Carolyn Hax, who is an advice columnist for The Washington Post, into this conversation as well. 212-433-9692. You're listening to Please Advise. It's a pop-up advice show here from WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. We'll be right back.
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Welcome to Please Advise, a pop-up advice show here at WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. This is our inaugural show. We're doing it this hour on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays. Today we're talking with Josh Gondelman, author, comedian. Now we're going to bring in our next guest, Carolyn Hax, who's an advice columnist for the Washington Post. Carolyn, welcome to Please Advise.
Carolyn Hax: Hi, thanks for having me.
Tiffany Hanssen: Absolutely. Listeners, of course, we're looking for your ideas as well. We did throw out a question here. What's the most consequential piece of advice you've ever received? Also, if you have some topic ideas for us as we go forward with this program, show ideas for something that you'd like advice on, you can call us, you can text us. 212-433-9692. We are working, I promise listeners, friends, countrymen, to resolve this issue with the calls going to voicemail, so do not give up on us. 212-433-9692. Carolyn, you've been giving advice for a long time. As we embark upon this show, the first thing I wanted to ask you is what advice do you have for us?
Carolyn Hax: Well-- oh God. It's so hard. I would say that the most important part of giving advice is to recognize that-- well, actually, the most important thing is wait till you're asked, so you've got that down because people are asking you. That would just be for anybody in the wild. The other thing I would say is the best thing you bring to your advice is humility.
Advice is something that I think gets a reputation for being sort of pushy and arrogant, like you're a know-it-all, but actually, the more humble you can be, the better you're going to be at it because you're talking to somebody who is not you. You approach it as something that has to apply to somebody who you don't understand, whose inner workings aren't familiar to you. It has to be this thing that works on its own without you.
Tiffany Hanssen: It makes sense. Absolutely. One of the things that fascinates me when I read your column is how we're only getting one side of the story.
Carolyn Hax: Right.
Tiffany Hanssen: In other words, you're getting somebody's story about their crazy uncle. Who knows? If you talk to the uncle, you might get a completely different story. I'm wondering how that affects the advice you're giving.
Carolyn Hax: Well, that's the controlling element. Think about life. Think about being a person. You're only living one side of the story anyway, so the only person you can control is yourself. I think that is the fundamental mistake that comes into my inbox is that people think that they have some say in what other people do, and you just don't. Any advice you give has to apply only to the person writing in, because you have no control over anybody else in that person's life. You have no say in any of the other players. You don't even know their story. You have to do the whole thing in this single vision.
Again, that's not necessarily a flaw because that's how you're living anyway. Again, you're operating only on your side of the story with everything.
Tiffany Hanssen: I don't know the process for you, but I would assume you get to see a selection of inquiries that come into the paper and then you can select from them. Are there topics that you steer away from?
Carolyn Hax: Yes, I stay away from workplace advice. I think it's funny you're having Roxane Gay tomorrow. That is a very specialized knowledge and understanding. I've just said no. The breadth of relationships is big enough. Just personal interaction outside of the workplace is huge. Other than that, I think I try to stay away from the ones that I think are really involved with that really belong in a professional's office. That can be just an attorney's office or not necessarily just a therapist, but I have to know what I don't know.
Tiffany Hanssen: Carolyn, we have Josh Gondelman here with us. Josh, is there any topic that you avoid when someone asks you like, "Hey, I'd like some advice on--" obviously, if it's outside of your world of knowledge, but any other topics?
Josh Gondelman: I try to exercise that humility that Carolyn was talking about. If there's something that I feel out over my skis, I'll try to refer them to somebody that I know that is an expert as long as it's not too personal a thing where I'm bringing someone into a secret situation. I think there's a lot. I try not to give advice that is beyond my sphere unless it's very clear advice, like, "Hey, you should see how they feel." You know what I mean? Like when it's more than just the kind of axioms and clichés that often do the trick.
Tiffany Hanssen: You are listening to Please Advise. [crosstalk] Oh, sorry, Carolyn. Let me just pop in here and say that we are a pop-up advice show, and it appears that our calls are now working. I feel like we should have-- 212-433-9692. We're talking with Carolyn Hax and Josh Gondelman. Let's bring Anne in Bed-Stuy into the conversation. Hi, Anne.
Anne: Hi, how are you?
Tiffany Hanssen: Glad to have you.
Anne: Glad to be here. The advice that I think about a lot was told to me when I quit drinking and was in the process of quitting drinking. It was to play the tape forward. I find it very applicable to all other aspects of life when trying to decide something, how I'm going to say or act something. Play the tape forward has helped me stay sober for nine years.
Tiffany Hanssen: Ann, thank you so much for the call. We appreciate it. I think that some of the consequential advice we can give and get might come from unexpected places. Josh, you're nodding your head.
Josh Gondelman: Yes. Well, I was just thinking when Ann was talking that so much sobriety advice is general good advice for any situation, like the serenity prayer of knowing the difference between what you can control and the wisdom to tell the difference, et cetera. I really butchered it. I kind of yada, yada, yada through it.
Tiffany Hanssen: I got you.
Josh Gondelman: You know what I'm talking about. It's interesting to take advice that is meant for one's fear and apply it otherwise, like my dad's construction advice and sobriety advice too.
Tiffany Hanssen: Carolyn, you have anything to add there?
Carolyn Hax: Yes, I was going to say that some of the most useful stuff that I have recommended to people who are really just starting from scratch is also from the adult children of alcoholics area. That stuff is really good. It's not just from the recovery work. It's also the work for families. It's just really great baseline stuff because sometimes it's building from the ground up of how to restart your emotional structure from the foundation. It's very helpful stuff.
Tiffany Hanssen: Let's bring Susan in Staten Island into the conversation. Hi, Susan.
Susan: Hi. Nice program.
Tiffany Hanssen: Thank you.
Susan: You're welcome. The best advice I ever got was "Take care of yourself first. No one else will," and that was from my mother.
Tiffany Hanssen: Thank you, Susan. Appreciate that. Josh has mentioned his dad frequently. Carolyn, do you feel some added responsibility when you are answering a question that someone may have submitted when it is about a family member, or maybe you're answering a question that you wish someone had asked to a family member?
Carolyn Hax: I don't think there's extra responsibility. Every single one of them is somebody's life. Some of them are funny, and some of them are horrifying. Somebody will say, "Oh, a light one today." This is important to the person who wrote in. Daily life is what we carry around for ourselves, and so the implications might not seem big to the next person, but it is big to the person who's carrying it. I try to keep that in mind. Certainly, I'll laugh, or I'll get exasperated, or I'll say, "Wow, this is a big one. I have to take extra care," but really, everybody gets the same, "This matters."
Tiffany Hanssen: Melanie in Loch Arbour, New Jersey. Hi, Melanie. Welcome to WNYC.
Melanie: Hi, dear. Hi. A very good piece of advice that I was given through by a friend of mine is everyone grieves differently.
Tiffany Hanssen: Thank you for that, Melanie. I appreciate it. Sometimes, Josh, as you were saying, the advice that we get, that's the simplest is the best. Carolyn, you have a word count, too. You have a word count to fill up. I would imagine you can't just answer with two sentences. Do you feel sometimes that you find yourself leaning into those simple axioms, though?
Carolyn Hax: Well, there was one time I was going through a bunch of columns, and I realized if I go back through all of them, I could sit there and say, "Oh, this one is stitch in time saves nine, and this one is measure twice, cut once. I could tag each one with one of some Ben Franklin, something from the old farm [crosstalk]
Josh Gondelman: Classic penny-earned situation.
Carolyn Hax: I'm not going to tell anyone that all I'm doing is rewriting something that everybody's known all along. I think how you apply it and how you diagnose it all matters, and also just the delivery method. There's some people who can't stand my style and then won't read my column, but they'll read something else with the same adages spun into a different way that they find accessible and pleasing. The role of the advice column isn't just to teach something that people have never thought of. It's really how we're applying some ancient stuff in new contexts or in the context people maybe haven't thought of. We'll just give them reminders. We're giving people a sense of connection.
It has a bunch of different purposes, and so I don't really get too hung up on which one I'm serving today. I'm just trying to talk to somebody as if they're at my kitchen table in writing and see how that comes out. I have the luxury of a lot of questions. If it's going to come out as a one-sentence answer, I might not choose that letter.
Tiffany Hanssen: Got it. Elizabeth in Brooklyn, you have received some consequential advice in your past that you can share.
Elizabeth: Yes. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I had a photography professor at Cornell who would always drill into us, do the work in the camera. This was a photography course where we were working in a dark room, and just to allow yourself the time to do things properly at the beginning, and don't just think, "Oh, I'll fix it later. I'll fix it later. Anytime I'm feeling rushed at work or with anything, I'm like, "Do the work in the camera."
Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, interesting. It's a lesson in patience.
Elizabeth: Yes.
Carolyn Hax: Wait, I thought we were going to fix it and post.
Tiffany Hanssen: That's my MO, but okay. Elizabeth, thanks so much for that. We appreciate it.
Josh Gondelman: Kind of the artist's measure twice, cut once.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, right?
Carolyn Hax: Right. Exactly. Yes.
Tiffany Hanssen: We have a texter here who says, "Super interesting that Carolyn Hax steers away from workplace advice. That's the area I find myself wanting most, whether it be career advice or just general workplace dynamics. It's such a large part of our life, and I still haven't figured out, like most people probably. Well, tune in tomorrow is what I'll say because we have Roxanne Gay coming on tomorrow to talk about workplace advice. Also, Josh, this texter says, "So cool that Josh is on here."
Josh Gondelman: Thank you. I feel the same way. I think it's cool to be here.
Tiffany Hanssen: You are listening to Please Advise, a new pop-up advice show here from WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. We did ask a question. The most consequential piece of advice you've ever received. Also looking for advice on what topics you might want us to cover going forward. 212-433-9692. You can call us, you can text us at that number. We are talking with Josh Gondelman, and we're talking with Carolyn Hax, who's an advice columnist for the Washington Post. Carolyn, does it ever feel like you're just telling people what to do?
Carolyn Hax: Well, see, no. Sometimes. No. Sometimes I can't help myself, but in general, I try not to because one of the things I did when I first started the column was I realized that this is personal, I can't stand being told what to do, so I knew going into this that it was quite rich that I was going to do this. As I said before, I don't know what other people are thinking, what their temperaments are, what their lives are like. My advice was always going to be geared toward how to think about a problem and not necessarily what I would do about it, if that makes sense.
I try to gear my advice toward ways to frame the problem, and that is a lot. I think it's different from advising specific actions. I do cross over sometimes and say, "Wow, you got to get out of there." It's usually with relationships, like really bad relationships. That's a, "Get out of there." Often, I would talk to this person. I would think of it this way. If you want to get down to it, it could come off as very namby-pamby. Maybe not in the phrasing, but it's all in perception.
Tiffany Hanssen: I got you. I got it, Carolyn. Josh, we have a caller here with a show idea, so let's hear it. Adonna in Henderson, Nevada. Hi.
Adonna: Hi, how are you?
Tiffany Hanssen: Great.
Adonna: Good. I just recently became blind, three years ago, and I was thinking a good show would be some advice about those who are newly blind versus those who are born blind, because really, that's all they know. Somebody who's newly blind, some kind of advice to just navigate life and adjusting.
Tiffany Hanssen: Thank you so much for the call, Adonna. We appreciate it. We'll put that on our list. We'll put that on our list of topics. Listeners as well, if you have other topics that you'd like us to consider, like Adonna's, you can call us, you can text us. 212-433-9692. We're going to get back to the conversation here on Please Advise. We do have to take a quick break, and we'll be right back.
[music]
Welcome to Please Advise. Welcome back. I should say this is a pop-up advice show from WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen here today with Josh Gondelman and Carolyn Hax, and we are talking advice on advice on advice, a hat on a hat on a hat. Let's get back to it with Sandra in Boonton Township, New Jersey. Hi, Sandra.
Sandra: Hi. I'm loving the show. Just want to say that, first off. Second thing is the issue is how to deal with a parent's dementia. I'm new to this, just about a year or two into it, but it's happening fast. Best advice I ever received was don't say, "Don't you remember?"
Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, interesting.
Sandra: Then also, I think it would be a great topic to have for a show. Either have people calling in that have been through it, or an expert, because it's just so multifaceted to how to deal with the whole thing, but particularly conversation with them, the frequent questions. They get confused, and it's hard to make it a habit to not say, "Don't you remember?" or not get frustrated or impatient with them.
Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Thank you so much for that, Sandra. We appreciate it. Josh and Carolyn, we have-- I'm noticing a little bit of a trend here, if we can call it that, with two callers. People who are newly into a situation, newly into dealing with a loved one with dementia, newly into dealing with losing their sight, I think that that is a time when a lot of us search for advice when we are dealing with something. That's probably why so much parenting advice. You're dealing with something you've never dealt with before. Carolyn, how much of what you get is people in those situations where, "I'm new to X, Y, Z, and I don't know what to do"?
Carolyn Hax: I think it's a pretty big percentage, and often it comes across as not necessarily where to find information on blank, but it is, "I am now living a life that I never expected to be living, and I don't know what to do with that." That is something I think so many of us can relate to in just so many different ways. It may not be the specific reality that that person is living, but the idea of just waking up and not recognizing the day is something that is very familiar to a lot of people. That is something I do get a lot.
Tiffany Hanssen: We have a texter here that says "Congrats on the new show." Thank you, and, "Huge Carolyn Hax fan." Best piece of advice I ever received, "Don't do for your children what they can do for themselves." Do you get a lot of parenting questions, Carolyn?
Carolyn Hax: Yes. Yes, I do, although it's funny, I get a lot of parenting questions, but I also get a lot of, "I just want to be a parent. I wish people would get out of my face."
Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, sure.
Carolyn Hax: There's sort of the, "I needed parenting advice," but there's also "I just want to be a parent without all the advice." It's both sides.
Tiffany Hanssen: Let's bring Maria in Katonah into the conversation. Hi, Maria.
Maria: Hi. How are you doing? Congratulations on the new show.
Tiffany Hanssen: Thank you.
Maria: I don't know this is advice for the person, but whenever someone who's distressed, whether it be a teenager, a young child, or an adult, the first thing I ask is, "Do you want comfort, or do you really want to know what I think?" Because a lot of times people come to you and they certainly sometimes don't want to hear the opposite of what they're thinking, but they just want somebody to acknowledge their discomfort or distress. I do think, for me, that comes first.
Tiffany Hanssen: Wise advice, Maria. Wise advice. Thank you for that. Josh, that was on my list of things to ask you about. Carolyn, you don't really have the luxury of being able to ask the person what kind of advice they're looking for. IRL, Josh. It is a very enlightened thing to do when someone asks you for advice to say, "What do you want from me out of this?" Do you do that?
Josh Gondelman: Yes, I really do. I do it in professional settings when someone goes, "I have this script. Can you give me notes?" and I say, "Do you want notes that are like, 'Sounds good,' or do you want notes where I go, 'Typo here, typo here, typo here?'" In personal life, I think, often, people find themselves with a hunch of what they want to do, and the kind thing to do is to go, "Yes, that sounds good," especially when their dilemma would be resolved okay either way, and you go, "Yes, the thing you're thinking about, you're not wrong." I think that's a gift if that's what they are looking for.
Tiffany Hanssen: Rhoda in Newton. Welcome to the conversation, Rhoda.
Rhoda: Hi. My expression is not earth-shattering like a lot of the ones that you've already discussed, but when I was a freshman in high school, my English teacher, who was in his very first job, wrote on the chalkboard, "Always remember never to say 'always' and 'never.'" I am now 90 years old, and I have been repeating that 100 times a year, every year in the midst of conversation, because people just so easily say, "I always do so and so," or "I would never," and neither of those is true.
Tiffany Hanssen: Rhoda, thank you so much. I think people do that in arguments, too. I have heard myself say, "You always do this, Josh. Darn you."
Josh Gondelman: You know what? Sometimes I don't do that.
Tiffany Hanssen: Sometimes you don't.
Carolyn Hax: That was really good.
Josh Gondelman: I often do that.
Carolyn Hax: Sorry.
Josh Gondelman: No, I'm sorry. I'm still [unintelligible 00:46:50]
Tiffany Hanssen: Right. Carolyn, I would assume you probably-- you don't have the luxury of knowing what someone always does, but do you avoid nevers?
Carolyn Hax: Oh, that caller minimized what she was going to say, and I'm like, "That is a big problem." That is always a problem. It's a very valid piece.
Tiffany Hanssen: It's always a problem.
Josh Gondelman: It's never not a problem.
Tiffany Hanssen: Okay. On that note, let's bring Anna in Freehold, New Jersey. Hi, Anna.
Anna: Hi. Thanks so much for your show. I've been listening, and it's wonderful. When I was going through my divorce, I was told that holding on to resentment is like drinking poison, expecting the other person to die.
Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, yes, that's another one of those, that sort of an axiom that people-- but it resonated with you in that moment, right, Anna?
Anna: It did. I was so angry, and he was just going on with his life. It really just helped me think he's living rent-free in my head, and it was just killing me. Finally, as I started to heal, the anger started to slip away, so does the resentment. Now we don't necessarily get along, but I'm able to be okay.
Tiffany Hanssen: We're going to bring one last caller into the conversation here. Tamio in Wayne, New Jersey. Hi, Tamio.
Tamio: Hi. One of the most lasting pieces of advice I've ever gotten was I was dealing with my father when he was in his 80s, and we had some disagreement, and I got very short with him. After the argument, whatever happened, a voice came to me and said, "How would you have treated a total stranger in that situation? Could you not treat your father at least as well as you would have dealt with a stranger?"
Tiffany Hanssen: Good advice, Tamio. Good advice. Have you followed it?
Tamio: I heard myself say that when he was in his 80s, and he lived to be 99 and a half. It really enhanced our relationship, and it's something that I applied to other situations not related to elders.
Tiffany Hanssen: Tamio, thanks so much for the call. You have been listening to Please Advise. It's a new pop-up advice show here from WNYC. We've been talking with Josh Gondelman, author, comedian. Oh, Josh, I have things that I want to say about what you're doing coming up here. You have a headlining show at The Bell House on November 11th. That's part of the New York Comedy Festival. By the way, Josh fans, you can also hear Josh on Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!, coming up, the weekend of the 26th and the 27th of this month. Josh, thank you for being an inaugural guest on the inaugural show. We appreciate it.
Josh Gondelman: Thank you. It was my great pleasure. If you have any advice for how I could do better, please know it will hurt my feelings, but I should hear it.
Tiffany Hanssen: All right, noted.
Josh Gondelman: I always do that.
Tiffany Hanssen: You never do that. Carolyn Hax is an advice columnist with the Washington Post. Carolyn, thank you so much for your advice here on this advice show and about us going forward with advice. We appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Carolyn Hax: Thanks for having me.
Tiffany Hanssen: Liisteners, Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays, you can tune in for Please Advise. It is a pop-up advice show here at WNYC. Tomorrow we are going to be back with Roxane Gay, and we are going to tackle some of those workplace advice questions, so get them ready. Go to wnyc.org/advice if you want to submit it now or tune in tomorrow at one o'clock. We'll be back with Please Advise. I'm Tiffany Hanssen. Thanks for joining us.
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